2019 Kia K900
03-12-18, 02:44 PM
#91
drives cars
Sale-wise, it is actually doing better than I would have guessed. More than double the Lexus GS, and right on the heels of the Audi A6, in 2017. I think this is partly down to the price, really. It can be had with most of the same features for far less money than those other options.
03-12-18, 03:43 PM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
LexsCTJill - exactly which makes the lexus success all the more remarkable, but timing is (almost) everything, plus luck, but it was not luck that the original ls400 blew everyone's mind when it was launched with an equally awesome marketing campaign. i don't think the auto world has seen anything like that since.
But yes, timing does play a role. Like Genesis, Lexus was facing a US decline in auto sales at the time. However, Lexus did have the advantage of using existing Toyota dealers in constraint, I have been reading, Hyundai is trying to keep Genesis owners out of the Hyundai dealer. (This is what I mean that the Hyundai is not as strong as it needs to be). Toyota’s, Honda, and Nissan were also responsible for the market share erosion of the American big three in the 80s. The market share was increasing so the time was perfect for Lexus. Lastly, the famous Toyota logo was introduced at the same auto show along with Lexus. There was a big loyalty built into buyers which gave Toyota a huge advantage for their new Lexus brand.
03-12-18, 06:08 PM
#94
Lexus Champion
Last I considered a Hyundai was 2001 when I bought my camry. 17 years later, traded my camry on a Lexus; and Hyundai has had problems all along. I expected by now they'd have their act together. i'm not seeing it in the least. Even the Stinger will be stinging customers over the next 3 years in my estimation. The Soul is one of their most popular sellers and that thing has people posting problems on the daily.
K9 also tells me it's a dog.
K9 also tells me it's a dog.
03-12-18, 08:16 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
saying lexus' accomplishment was amazing,
at what time? You mean the past 2 years i guess?
Don't understand any of that except the last sentence which i agree with.
But yes, timing does play a role. Like Genesis, Lexus was facing a US decline in auto sales at the time.
However, Lexus did have the advantage of using existing Toyota dealers in constraint, I have been reading, Hyundai is trying to keep Genesis owners out of the Hyundai dealer. (This is what I mean that the Hyundai is not as strong as it needs to be). Toyota’s, Honda, and Nissan were also responsible for the market share erosion of the American big three in the 80s. The market share was increasing so the time was perfect for Lexus. Lastly, the famous Toyota logo was introduced at the same auto show along with Lexus. There was a big loyalty built into buyers which gave Toyota a huge advantage for their new Lexus brand.
03-12-18, 08:53 PM
#96
Lexus Fanatic
From 1980-2010, Japanese market share increased year and year. So it was the perfect time around the late 80s for the emergence of Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. All simply extensions of the core Toyota, Honda, and Nissan brands. Today, Hyundai is not gaining the same market share, the might be losing it (but not sure). So a Genesis brand today has a harder time today. I believe In 1990 and the year after, US total car sales went down which is similar to today.
03-12-18, 09:01 PM
#97
Lexus Fanatic
In 1990, 1991, 1992 overall US sales decreased by 1 million units only to pick up in 1993. In every single one of the those years Lexus sales increased. Today, the overall US sales numbers are on the decline. So Genesis has the same hurdle as Lexus did.
03-12-18, 09:06 PM
#98
Racer
Thread Starter
From 1980-2010, Japanese market share increased year and year. So it was the perfect time around the late 80s for the emergence of Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. All simply extensions of the core Toyota, Honda, and Nissan brands. Today, Hyundai is not gaining the same market share, the might be losing it (but not sure). So a Genesis brand today has a harder time today. I believe In 1990 and the year after, US total car sales went down which is similar to today.
03-12-18, 09:12 PM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
While I was working, we used the Ohio Honda plant as an example of how to do things right. When they moved some of the Acura production there I got to talk with one of the young Acura executives. According to him, the original mission of the Acura brand was not to capture sales from BMW or Mercedes, but to provide an upgrade to the many Honda customers so they did not switch brands as they got more affluent. The original Acura Legend was already being sold in Japan as the Honda Legend and fit the intent perfectly. When I traded my 94 Accord for a 97 Legend it was like coming home. All the controls were where I expected to find them. As Hyundai and KIA sales grow, I see Genesis and premium KIA vehicles as a place for these customers to upgrade without changing brands. The fact that the upgraded cars are already domestic South Korean cars is much like the beginning of Acura.
03-12-18, 09:31 PM
#100
Racer
Thread Starter
Acura (in the US) did not allow common dealerships with Honda. Many of the owners of Acura dealerships were also Honda dealers but they had to set up different stores. I remember talking to a neighbor who was the manager of the local Acura store. His problem was with service. New Acuras did not break and there were no old ones on the street. For a couple of years I had all my service done in his shop even on my company car Mercury because they weren't busy and the quality was great.
03-13-18, 06:22 AM
#101
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
From 1980-2010, Japanese market share increased year and year. So it was the perfect time around the late 80s for the emergence of Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. All simply extensions of the core Toyota, Honda, and Nissan brands. Today, Hyundai is not gaining the same market share, the might be losing it (but not sure). So a Genesis brand today has a harder time today. I believe In 1990 and the year after, US total car sales went down which is similar to today.
Do you remember what the dealer set up was like when Acura emerged? I remember Lexus very well, mostly split dealers with Toyota.
03-13-18, 07:26 AM
#102
Lexus Fanatic
There are several things that explain that. Part of it can be explained by the fact that we had a recession in 1991-92, after the Desert Storm war in the Gulf. Many people simply didn't buy new cars, period. Part of it can be explained by the then-new Federal "luxury" tax on vehicles, boats, airplanes, jewelry, furs, etc..... And part of it of course, on the fact that Lexus LS400, at 35K, in that recessionary period, appealed very strongly to those who did have some money to spend on new cars, and didn't want to pay the inflated prices at Mercedes and BMW. IMO, those same attributes, at least to an extent, are now found in the Kia K900 and Genesis G80/G90...comparable luxury while significantly undercutting the competition in price.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-13-18 at 07:37 AM.
03-13-18, 09:02 PM
#103
Lexus Champion
Sale-wise, it is actually doing better than I would have guessed. More than double the Lexus GS, and right on the heels of the Audi A6, in 2017. I think this is partly down to the price, really. It can be had with most of the same features for far less money than those other options.
If you combine the ES and GS, you'd get somewhere around where the G80 average is, and Lexus is outselling the G80 3x.
03-14-18, 06:55 AM
#104
drives cars
Though, the G80 is bigger than both the ES and GS, as well as the E-class for instance, making it somewhat odd in the segment.
03-14-18, 10:09 AM
#105
Lexus Fanatic
The GS is not a good selling car to begin with, but the average new G80 on Autotrader goes for $50,826, $5k more than the ES ($44,949) and $10k less than the GS ($60,226). And the G80 offers not only more bigger more powerful engines for the dollar, it is also a full size class above the GS.
If you combine the ES and GS, you'd get somewhere around where the G80 average is, and Lexus is outselling the G80 3x.
If you combine the ES and GS, you'd get somewhere around where the G80 average is, and Lexus is outselling the G80 3x.