Aron9000

My mom has a 2012 Camry SE V6(first year for that new angular body style). It has over 150k on it now, every button, switch, the center screen, the keyless entry/start button, everything still works as new. It runs like a new car, drives like a new car, steering is still super tight, suspension is still tight, its rock solid in the way it runs/drives. However I do see some cost cutting on this car, mainly in some of the interior plastics and the paint on the front bumper/hood. It chips way too easily, front of that car looks like its been through a sandblaster, the front bumper and leading edge of the hood could stand a repaint, its that bad. I mean you look at the front of my 1992 Lexus SC with 103k on it, the paint is WAY nicer, you can't see the chips on it until you get about a foot from the car and really look at it.

Toyotas, I'm not worried about them crapping out because of complex electronics. Keep in mind they were the first people to introduce satellite navigation with the 1987 or 1988 Crown, I've seen Crowns of that vintage where the screen and buttons still worked. That's the one reason I keep coming back to Toyota, is that they don't approve something on the car if it won't last the life of the car, unlike the Germans who put all kinds of silly features on their cars that go wrong between years 5 and 10.

Johnhav430

My cousin's wife had a '12 8 cyl. X5 CPO, which she loved as far as how it drove. She couldn't keep it due to the number of days it spent at the dealership, vs. on the road. I would still like to believe it's the exception, because we see plenty of 8 cyl. BMWs on the road. The final straw was when a driveshaft broke and left oil all over I-287, cousin said that's kinda dangerous let's get rid of this car. I've never personally had a car with 315's in the rear, but she did. I would have to say it is what it is. It's not that BMW cannot build a reliable car, it's that their focus is not there.

I've had my 2006 LS430 for 16 mos. now, and it had its first issue last Friday. The park assist started acting up. Does not seem to be uncommon for the 3rd gen LS. I could say, from this forum, it's a bit surprising what Lexus gets to fix it. Each sensor is $301 list. I've mentioned this before, many BMW parts and repairs are far cheaper, as 1) There is a lot more competition among dealerships and indies 2) It is relatively easy to buy OEM parts, vs. OE. This is almost non-existent with Lexus. You can get OE, or aftermarket. A BMW sensor is $169 list, not half, but 43% less.

I don't think the above makes my car unreliable, but it is annoying, not the failure, but the cost. When costs are high, I am forced to DIY, which is what I'm planning maybe summer, with eBay knock-offs....not gonna drop $1000+ on that! But it was working again yesterday and today knock on wood...

I have had the same experience as you with my purchased new 1998 Maxima, none of the parts that have broken on the 2006 Lexus broke on the Maxima. I still am very sure the 2006 Lexus is built better, just might not have had as good components by 2006....(door actuator is a common failure).

I'm just saying BMW might not be as bad as you say--my 2007 335i had a ABS failure, that's it. Although I can clearly see the decline in the F 3 series and brand new X1 which I had as loaners....(F dozens)

edit p.s. I agree on the BMW ABS/DSC hydro pump as being cheap a**--it fails on bikes as well and is a $4,200 job at the dealer (People have paid the dealer, only to have the failure again, outside of the 1 yr. warranty). But competition allows a DIY'er to get it done for around $300 (I had to buy software, a Motive, line wrenches, which drove my cost to almost $500). This part is made in Hungary, not Germany. Also, the coil packs are made in Turkey. Which is why when I do get Lexus OE parts, it's nice to see they're usually made in Japan...

LexBob2

A couple of years ago with fingers crossed I bought my first BMW. It was trouble free with only routine maintenance. A very good experience. So good I bought another. About the same time, for our other car, I bought our first Audi. Same thing, no issues only a couple of software updates when it was in for service. Based on tis experience, we bought another one and so far so good. Having said this, even though I buy all of my cars, I don't keep them beyond the factory warranty period (this includes our Lexus cars too). So reliability to me is not being inconvenienced by running back ad forth to the dealer for issues minor or major even though they are covered by warranty.

Johnhav430

Again, there's a lot of what I refer to as "it is what it is."

I got a promotion in 2015, at the same time (it always works this way), a Swiss co. made me a job offer, which I decided not to take. That co. got acquired, so who's to say which would have been better? I guess I took the safe route, only a little more money with more responsibility, likely more security. The other way was more money, unknown responsibility, and unknown security. What's riding on the decision was at the time a wife and a 1 1/2 y.o.'s future. imho the car's reliability is an analogy. Buy a Lexus, most likely it is more reliable than a BMW. But it is boring as a **** to drive. The flip side, if you wind up like my sis in-law with sweet 315's in the rear and a 8 cyl. BMW X5, how exciting is that to drive if it's at the dealership for weeks at a time?

Everyone knows you can get a V10 M5 for $15-$25k. Should you? Two common issues are SMG and rod bearings. Get a stick and 1/2 problems are gone. Then there's the other...

Autobacs

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. It would have been a crap shoot keeping the BMW. I guess that's part of the excitement of owning one .

BTW, the GS-F is definitely not boring to drive.

Johnhav430

True, I hear you, I enjoy driving my '06 LS430, it's likely going to get me from point A to point B every time, quite comfortably and with no effort, no drama...

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

My quick summary:
1. Major components like engine/transmission/electrical that are intended to work should still work (someone mentioned it previously), at least to 100k miles (my add on).
Most say when a car breaks down, they say "oh it's because you didn't do the maintenance or neglect the car."
They're confusing that with wear/tear/regular maintenance parts.

I have low tolerance for unreliable cars...PITA, I'd rather spend that time and $$$ elsewhere rather than fixing an unreliable car.

2. Won't leave you stranded-please see #1

Johnhav430

#2, with many Japanese (and likely Korean) cars is no joke. Again, I can cite my 1998 Nissan Maxima purchased new. It never failed to start in its entire life, except when the starter went. That's 20 years this March. I was a different person when I bought it, how could I not be? But I clearly remember seeing a new GS400 with a wing and saying hot dang, that is so sweet makes my car look like a Yugo! Bet that car had just as reliable of a life.

p.s. Memories--one of the first thing I did was to crank an Oasis cd which made the rearview shake like there was no tomorrow! on the 2006 LS, same volume/bass things don't shake...

Aron9000

It kind of depends on the car as to my terms of what I deem "reliable" . . . .

For a new car, I expect it to not be in the shop other than routine maintenance. Maybe for a first year of a new body-style, I'll give them a little wiggle room with a software glitch or some sort of crappy/fit/finish on a trim part, but generally I expect the car to not have any drive-ability problems. The 2016 V6 Tacoma with the wonky shifting transmission is an example of a massive fail IMO that needed a TSB to reprogram the shift points. That truck should have left the factory with the revised programming, it should never have been in the customer's hands with that stupid shift calibration. Of course leaving you on the side of the road under warranty is even worse IMO.

If you are the first owner on that new car and do all the maintenance, I generally expect at least 150,000 to 200,000 miles of reliable service, ie no out of the blue $1000+ repair bills(German cars are real bad about this). Yeah you know if your suspension is worn out, if your brakes need work, that's stuff you can budget and expect. I'm talking about stuff like random electrical faults that leave the car in limp mode or on the side of the road, catostrophic engine failure, or even stuff like engine oil consumption, which as it gets worse you know the engine is on borrowed time and its better to just dump the car.

Johnhav430

My Godfather bought a 2009 RAV4. In 7 years, all he replaced was the battery. Not surprising. He likes cars, but is very conservative about experiencing unexpected repairs. Over the years, I can't even mention all the BMWs, Mercedes Benzes, etc., that he has admired of all the relatives having driven. He even told me when I got the 2006 LS430, do you realize, that car won so many awards when it was new? He said it was at the top of Consumer Reports (haha here we go again). Should he put his hands up in the air, and walk backwards to the officer, i.e. step out of the box? He is wealthy, why not experience a nice car as he's into cars? All I'm saying is there's more than one flavor in life....

p.s. his son in law drives a 997 Turbo S lol

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so if your godfather had a 2009 rav4 for 7 years, what does he have now?

Htony

Anyone never drive any vehicle with bad record of reliability? Then many vehicles in the market will never sell.

mmarshall

Many people today, even with some of today's so-called "unreliable" makes, are spoiled, and have no idea what real unreliability is. Me and/or my family have owned the GM X-Body Citation, Chrysler K-cars and Omni/Horizon, Plymouth Volare/Aspen, Renault 5 (LeCar), and the notoriously balky Chrysler two-barrel carbs and drum brakes of the 1960s. Yes, we learned the hard way.

All of those cars, without question, had a lot of problems, but the 1980 Citation, hands-down, had the most serious problems, and was the one most likely to leave you stranded. It was (arguably) the worst car I ever owned. However, the worst cars I ever test-drove, quality-wise (though I didn't own them) were the 1984 Pontiac Fiero and, a couple of years later, the then-new 1987 Hyundai Excel. The Fiero looked and drove like it was assembled by drunks (half of the gauges didn't work, the steering wheel was canted about 30 degrees off-center, the wheel shimmied at speed (wheel/tire imbalances and bad tire-mounts were common problems back then with many vehicles), the plastic doors banged shut and were somewhat misaligned, squeaks and rattles abounded, and the car pulled sideways noticeably. The Excel, coming out of the factory, wasn't in as bad shape physically as the Fiero...it had fewer assembly-defects, but was so poorly-engineered that IMO it drove like a toy. On a hot muggy day with the A/C compressor on, it couldn't get out of its own way....I could have walked back to the dealership quicker. I (later) found out that the first couple of generations of the Excel/Scoupe were actually Mitsubishi designs, also sold as the Mitsubishi Precis.

Aron9000

Had a 1991 Cadillac Brougham from 2007 to 2010, drove it from 100k to 130k miles, best car I ever owned in terms of reliability and cost of ownership. Same big boxy body style as the horrid 1981 through 1985 Deville, with the V-4-6-8 and then later HT4100 V8 engines. Mine had a truck engine/trans in it from the factory, 350 Chevy TBI/700R4 overdrive trans, rock solid reliable drivetrain in my car. Cadillac has had a bad reputation for reliability ever since the early 80's engine fiasco, but if you know what to buy and do your research there are certain reliable Cadillac models.

Toys4RJill