NYC Manhattan congestion levy proposal
01-18-18, 07:35 PM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
NYC Manhattan congestion levy proposal
It's going to be interesting to see how New Yorkers respond to this. Never been there, but from all reports, it's a busy, busy crowded place. So the Cuomo adminstration is going to the London, Singapore and Milan solution - a congestion traffic toll.
The transit upgrades are apparently a mess, so this is supposedly a fix via essentially, a tax. Cuomo had to declare a state of emergency in one of the richest cities in the world to get the transit system working? Wow.
The transit upgrades are apparently a mess, so this is supposedly a fix via essentially, a tax. Cuomo had to declare a state of emergency in one of the richest cities in the world to get the transit system working? Wow.
Driving a car into the busiest parts of Manhattan could cost $11.52 under a major proposal prepared for Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo that would make New York the first city in the United States with a pay-to-drive plan.
Similar traffic charges are already used in cities like Singapore, Stockholm, London and Milan, but New York has rejected or ignored versions of them dating to at least the 1970s. The newest plan embraces the twin goals of easing Manhattan’s choking traffic while raising badly needed revenue for the city’s failing subways and buses.Trucks would pay $25.34, and taxis and for-hire vehicles could see surcharges of $2 to $5 per ride.
The pricing zone would cover Manhattan south of 60th Street. In a key change from past efforts, drivers would not have to pay if they entered Manhattan by all but two of the city-owned East River bridges, which are now free to cross, as long as they bypassed the congestion zone. The proposals are part of a report by a task force, “Fix NYC,” convened by Governor Cuomo after he declared a state of emergency in the subways last June.
The report says that the fees on taxis and for-hire vehicles could be put in place within a year, followed by trucks and then cars in 2020. None of those fees should be charged, the task force said, until repairs are made to the public transit system.“Before asking commuters to abandon their cars, we must first improve mass transit capacity and reliability,” a draft of the report says.
Similar traffic charges are already used in cities like Singapore, Stockholm, London and Milan, but New York has rejected or ignored versions of them dating to at least the 1970s. The newest plan embraces the twin goals of easing Manhattan’s choking traffic while raising badly needed revenue for the city’s failing subways and buses.Trucks would pay $25.34, and taxis and for-hire vehicles could see surcharges of $2 to $5 per ride.
The pricing zone would cover Manhattan south of 60th Street. In a key change from past efforts, drivers would not have to pay if they entered Manhattan by all but two of the city-owned East River bridges, which are now free to cross, as long as they bypassed the congestion zone. The proposals are part of a report by a task force, “Fix NYC,” convened by Governor Cuomo after he declared a state of emergency in the subways last June.
The report says that the fees on taxis and for-hire vehicles could be put in place within a year, followed by trucks and then cars in 2020. None of those fees should be charged, the task force said, until repairs are made to the public transit system.“Before asking commuters to abandon their cars, we must first improve mass transit capacity and reliability,” a draft of the report says.
01-18-18, 07:54 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
We already have a congestion toll here in the D.C.-Virginia suburbs, on Interstate 66. Inside the Beltway, during rush hours, you have to have a transponder, and an automatic detector system charges you each time you use it, with the rate depending on how many vehicles are already on the road and any given moment vs. how many are trying to get on at that same moment. To put it bluntly, it's been a mess.....and they are still trying to work all the bugs out of the system. Makes me glad I'm retired and don't mess with that daily crap any more.
01-18-18, 10:28 PM
#4
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^^ we have those too on some freeways. they are called express lanes. But this article is referring to actual charges for entering a particular area of the city, which is much worse
01-19-18, 04:07 AM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
It's going to be interesting to see how New Yorkers respond to this. Never been there, but from all reports, it's a busy, busy crowded place. So the Cuomo adminstration is going to the London, Singapore and Milan solution - a congestion traffic toll.
The transit upgrades are apparently a mess, so this is supposedly a fix via essentially, a tax. Cuomo had to declare a state of emergency in one of the richest cities in the world to get the transit system working? Wow.
Source
The transit upgrades are apparently a mess, so this is supposedly a fix via essentially, a tax. Cuomo had to declare a state of emergency in one of the richest cities in the world to get the transit system working? Wow.
Source
And how do they collect it? An open EZ Pass system? Stopping cars at 60th Street will cause a traffic nightmare itself.
01-19-18, 05:39 AM
#7
a) They should not toll trucks - they are there to do work, bring deliveries, etc. Increased cost of business will be passed onto consumers.
b) There is very little reason to drive a private car or take taxi. It is simply faster to walk or take subway throughout the city. However, a lot of people that are driving around Manhattan are doing it because they are coming in from far away, and public transit isn't reliable. Would be great to have large parking lots near the crossings, so people could drive into Manhattan, park, and then walk or take subways.
c) Reduce number of taxis and ban Uber/Lyft in Manhattan. Toll the living crap out of the remaining ones during weekday business hours. One has got to be seriously lazy to take cabs around the city, because its much slower than walking and using the subway, and should pay premium for it.
d) Get rid of the god damn NYCT buses. They are slow, clumsy, redundant and useless. They simply don't belong on the city streets. Most of their routes are redundant with subway, but they move so slowly that is way faster to simply walk. Think about it - first you gotta get to the bus stop, then you wait forever for the bus, then it crawls at a snails pace, and then you got to get to your actual destination from the bus stop. The only people that take the bus around the city are old farts from $300 rent stabilized apartments in UWS with a lot of time to waste. Replace the buses with smaller 10-15 passenger vans, and instead of fixed routes have them operate using an app similar to Uber Pool.
b) There is very little reason to drive a private car or take taxi. It is simply faster to walk or take subway throughout the city. However, a lot of people that are driving around Manhattan are doing it because they are coming in from far away, and public transit isn't reliable. Would be great to have large parking lots near the crossings, so people could drive into Manhattan, park, and then walk or take subways.
c) Reduce number of taxis and ban Uber/Lyft in Manhattan. Toll the living crap out of the remaining ones during weekday business hours. One has got to be seriously lazy to take cabs around the city, because its much slower than walking and using the subway, and should pay premium for it.
d) Get rid of the god damn NYCT buses. They are slow, clumsy, redundant and useless. They simply don't belong on the city streets. Most of their routes are redundant with subway, but they move so slowly that is way faster to simply walk. Think about it - first you gotta get to the bus stop, then you wait forever for the bus, then it crawls at a snails pace, and then you got to get to your actual destination from the bus stop. The only people that take the bus around the city are old farts from $300 rent stabilized apartments in UWS with a lot of time to waste. Replace the buses with smaller 10-15 passenger vans, and instead of fixed routes have them operate using an app similar to Uber Pool.
Last edited by Och; 01-19-18 at 07:01 AM.
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01-19-18, 06:08 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
My cousin stated that in his opinion, there should be a $50 or higher toll to enter Manhattan. I agree. This is a place, where a physician would not be able to afford to live. So one can say, there's really no legitimate reason to drive there. They've already resorted to tactics such as, you have a NY EZPass, the bridge is $11.52. If your EZPass if from NJ, or anywhere else, the bridge is $17. Why would you willingly pay $17, when New Yorkers can pay $11.52? But I get it, if you have to use JFK airport, what can you do? You can play the carpool game, but that's about it.
My feeling is that in life, you, me, anybody, should never allow ourselves to be treated as 2nd class, and pay that much more, if we can help it. But if the toll goes up to $50, essentially that says most everyone should and likely would use public transit.
Times Square today is a tourist's playground that locals can nary afford. When you're still getting 1.38 to 1 on the USD, why not? I prefer the way it was in 1987, when NYC was a fun place. Sun went down, tourists went back to their hotels... But that's long, gone....
My feeling is that in life, you, me, anybody, should never allow ourselves to be treated as 2nd class, and pay that much more, if we can help it. But if the toll goes up to $50, essentially that says most everyone should and likely would use public transit.
Times Square today is a tourist's playground that locals can nary afford. When you're still getting 1.38 to 1 on the USD, why not? I prefer the way it was in 1987, when NYC was a fun place. Sun went down, tourists went back to their hotels... But that's long, gone....
01-19-18, 06:12 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
a) They should not toll trucks - they are there to do work, bring deliveries, etc. Increased cost of business will be passed onto consumers.
b) There is very little reason to drive a private car, take taxi. It is simply faster to walk or take subway throughout the city. However, a lot of people that are driving around Manhattan are doing it because they are coming in from far away, and public transit isn't reliable. Would be great to have large parking lots near the crossings, so people could drive into Manhattan, park, and then walk or take subways.
c) Reduce number of taxis and ban Uber/Lyft in Manhattan. Toll the living crap out of the remaining ones during weekday business hours. One has got to be seriously lazy to take cabs around the city, because its much slower than walking and using the subway, and should pay premium for it.
d) Get rid of the god damn NYCT buses. They are slow, clumsy, redundant and useless. They simply don't belong on the city streets. Most of their routes are redundant with subway, but they move so slowly that is way faster to simply walk. Think about it - first you gotta get to the bus stop, then you wait forever for the bus, then it crawls at a snails pace, and then you got to get to your actual destination from the bus stop. The only people that take the bus around the city are old farts from $300 rent stabilized apartments in UWS with a lot of time to waste. Replace the buses with smaller 10-15 passenger vans, and instead of fixed routes have them operate using an app similar to Uber Pool.
b) There is very little reason to drive a private car, take taxi. It is simply faster to walk or take subway throughout the city. However, a lot of people that are driving around Manhattan are doing it because they are coming in from far away, and public transit isn't reliable. Would be great to have large parking lots near the crossings, so people could drive into Manhattan, park, and then walk or take subways.
c) Reduce number of taxis and ban Uber/Lyft in Manhattan. Toll the living crap out of the remaining ones during weekday business hours. One has got to be seriously lazy to take cabs around the city, because its much slower than walking and using the subway, and should pay premium for it.
d) Get rid of the god damn NYCT buses. They are slow, clumsy, redundant and useless. They simply don't belong on the city streets. Most of their routes are redundant with subway, but they move so slowly that is way faster to simply walk. Think about it - first you gotta get to the bus stop, then you wait forever for the bus, then it crawls at a snails pace, and then you got to get to your actual destination from the bus stop. The only people that take the bus around the city are old farts from $300 rent stabilized apartments in UWS with a lot of time to waste. Replace the buses with smaller 10-15 passenger vans, and instead of fixed routes have them operate using an app similar to Uber Pool.
01-19-18, 07:28 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Hey, I got married in Manhattan, because my wife insisted this is where she's from, this is where her relatives and friends are, etc. My only responsibility was to handle the rehearsal dinner (and pay for it of course). Found a nice middle of the road place, seemed like it would be ok.
"We can certainly do this for you for $95/plate."
Maybe we paid that for the actual reception, but I'm talking rehearsal dinner. I asked my wife what about Jersey? No way. But suprisingly, the prices did not come down much in Jersey City, Hoboken, etc. You have to get pretty far away to see a drop.
NYC is a very unique place. Arguably it was once, and may still be, the capital of the world. To expect it to be discounted, is naive. I can't stand leaving my car with a valet, but there is no choice (used to be municipal run garages/self park). If you want to be there, it's gonna cost, just the way it is. Work is another story, people commute in for the higher pay, my wife did it 4 years.
"We can certainly do this for you for $95/plate."
Maybe we paid that for the actual reception, but I'm talking rehearsal dinner. I asked my wife what about Jersey? No way. But suprisingly, the prices did not come down much in Jersey City, Hoboken, etc. You have to get pretty far away to see a drop.
NYC is a very unique place. Arguably it was once, and may still be, the capital of the world. To expect it to be discounted, is naive. I can't stand leaving my car with a valet, but there is no choice (used to be municipal run garages/self park). If you want to be there, it's gonna cost, just the way it is. Work is another story, people commute in for the higher pay, my wife did it 4 years.
01-19-18, 08:16 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i am certain i will never drive in manhattan ever again in my life. 
manhattan is cramped, with millions of people. the only vehicles that should be there are delivery, transportation services, and govt services / law enforcement, etc. driving ones own car there is basically insane. it's slow, expensive, and risky.
manhattan is also facing many serious funding challenges so no doubt taxes will keep rising. and with the fed tax bill passed, many high rollers in manhattan are going to be paying a LOT more in taxes. some will leave. manhattan has had some awful mayors, but we'll see how the current bozo handles all this since he's obviously planning on running for president soon.
manhattan is cramped, with millions of people. the only vehicles that should be there are delivery, transportation services, and govt services / law enforcement, etc. driving ones own car there is basically insane. it's slow, expensive, and risky.
manhattan is also facing many serious funding challenges so no doubt taxes will keep rising. and with the fed tax bill passed, many high rollers in manhattan are going to be paying a LOT more in taxes. some will leave. manhattan has had some awful mayors, but we'll see how the current bozo handles all this since he's obviously planning on running for president soon.
01-19-18, 08:43 AM
#12
Pole Position
Whenever there are large and dense pedestrian areas such as downtowns or business districts there are no reasons to have cars over there making a mess and contributing exhaust gases. Just like how you have no pedestrians and sidewalks on a freeway for safety reasons.
01-19-18, 10:20 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
As someone who lives in NYC and drives to Manhattan several times per week - this will do ZERO to solve congestion.
Its nothing but a money grab by the politicians. Their answer is to just increase taxes how about stop the wasted spending on crappy initiatives. You have NY government workers making MORE in OVERTIME pay than they do in regular salary.
There is unbelievable amount of wasted spending on MTA, NY HRA, Court systems, Healthcare, Welfare, Illegal immigrants, public housing etc. And their best solution is to pass it on regular shmucks who are driving their cars/trucks to work, so basically the middle class thats not reliant on any entitlement programs!
Its nothing but a money grab by the politicians. Their answer is to just increase taxes how about stop the wasted spending on crappy initiatives. You have NY government workers making MORE in OVERTIME pay than they do in regular salary.
There is unbelievable amount of wasted spending on MTA, NY HRA, Court systems, Healthcare, Welfare, Illegal immigrants, public housing etc. And their best solution is to pass it on regular shmucks who are driving their cars/trucks to work, so basically the middle class thats not reliant on any entitlement programs!
01-19-18, 10:25 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Come to NYC and take a bus or subway in rush hour.People that are driving in have no other choice, they are going to work not sip coffee at a Starbucks.Basically its punishing NYC residents who actually live here and already pay NYC income tax in addition to NYS and Federal taxes.
01-19-18, 10:27 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Personally, if money were no object, I would likely live in Westchester. 2nd choice would be Nassau.
Disclaimer, I do not live in NJ, but I do work in NJ.
I think NJ people get the shaft. Think about a common scenario--work in Manhattan, live in NJ. It blows my mind, that those people pay NYS income tax, and THEN, pay the delta, to NJ.
Meaning, they would pay X if they had earned the money in NJ. Since they earned the money in Manhattan, they pay (Y+Z)=X, where Y is paid to NYS, and Z is paid to NJ. It's mind boggling.
Just the EZPass scenario, of paying $17 vs. $11.52 is a slap in the face (my EZPass is NJ so I have skin in the game). Just imagine if they were to turn around and do that on the NJTP? What's stopping them, besides morality? lol
Disclaimer, I do not live in NJ, but I do work in NJ.
I think NJ people get the shaft. Think about a common scenario--work in Manhattan, live in NJ. It blows my mind, that those people pay NYS income tax, and THEN, pay the delta, to NJ.
Meaning, they would pay X if they had earned the money in NJ. Since they earned the money in Manhattan, they pay (Y+Z)=X, where Y is paid to NYS, and Z is paid to NJ. It's mind boggling.
Just the EZPass scenario, of paying $17 vs. $11.52 is a slap in the face (my EZPass is NJ so I have skin in the game). Just imagine if they were to turn around and do that on the NJTP? What's stopping them, besides morality? lol