NYC Manhattan congestion levy proposal
01-19-18, 10:03 PM
#31
a) They should not toll trucks - they are there to do work, bring deliveries, etc. Increased cost of business will be passed onto consumers.
b) There is very little reason to drive a private car or take taxi. It is simply faster to walk or take subway throughout the city. However, a lot of people that are driving around Manhattan are doing it because they are coming in from far away, and public transit isn't reliable. Would be great to have large parking lots near the crossings, so people could drive into Manhattan, park, and then walk or take subways.
c) Reduce number of taxis and ban Uber/Lyft in Manhattan. Toll the living crap out of the remaining ones during weekday business hours. One has got to be seriously lazy to take cabs around the city, because its much slower than walking and using the subway, and should pay premium for it.
d) Get rid of the god damn NYCT buses. They are slow, clumsy, redundant and useless. They simply don't belong on the city streets. Most of their routes are redundant with subway, but they move so slowly that is way faster to simply walk. Think about it - first you gotta get to the bus stop, then you wait forever for the bus, then it crawls at a snails pace, and then you got to get to your actual destination from the bus stop. The only people that take the bus around the city are old farts from $300 rent stabilized apartments in UWS with a lot of time to waste. Replace the buses with smaller 10-15 passenger vans, and instead of fixed routes have them operate using an app similar to Uber Pool.
b) There is very little reason to drive a private car or take taxi. It is simply faster to walk or take subway throughout the city. However, a lot of people that are driving around Manhattan are doing it because they are coming in from far away, and public transit isn't reliable. Would be great to have large parking lots near the crossings, so people could drive into Manhattan, park, and then walk or take subways.
c) Reduce number of taxis and ban Uber/Lyft in Manhattan. Toll the living crap out of the remaining ones during weekday business hours. One has got to be seriously lazy to take cabs around the city, because its much slower than walking and using the subway, and should pay premium for it.
d) Get rid of the god damn NYCT buses. They are slow, clumsy, redundant and useless. They simply don't belong on the city streets. Most of their routes are redundant with subway, but they move so slowly that is way faster to simply walk. Think about it - first you gotta get to the bus stop, then you wait forever for the bus, then it crawls at a snails pace, and then you got to get to your actual destination from the bus stop. The only people that take the bus around the city are old farts from $300 rent stabilized apartments in UWS with a lot of time to waste. Replace the buses with smaller 10-15 passenger vans, and instead of fixed routes have them operate using an app similar to Uber Pool.
01-20-18, 07:41 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
I don't understand what all the uproar is about the congestion in a city like New York. Traffic has always been bad in New York and it is not going to get any better by charging people to come into the city. There is no one thing that is going to make it change. I live right in downtown Toronto from Monday to Friday, I am not about to say that the traffic is worse than NY but it is very, very bad. Now in my 27th year living where I am located I can tell you first hand it is impossible to effectively get somewhere car, it is too expensive to drive (gas) and it is very very expensive to park. I have not been to NY for at least 15 years or so but when I was there it was bad. For those people who are driving in from the suburbs, I question their sanity or why they want a job where they are, about a third of my employees who work for me either transit in to the city or they drive in, the average commute I have been told by them is about an 1 hour and 20 minutes by car and a little under if they are taking the train. I know one such employee who trains it in to work everyday at a cost $320 a month, he has to take one train and then walk the rest. Everyone who works for me has a parking spot paid for or I pay some of there transit money.
For me, when I leave the city, I almost have to do it under the cover of darkness. I arrive early on Monday morning at 6am or 6:30am to avoid all of the traffic. If I leave on Friday, it is either at 7pm or later. Even at those times, it can still be an hour just to exit the GTA. My parents who live 10 miles from me is easily a 50 minute or more drive anytime between 8am and 7pm M-F
I am fortunate I can walk to my office. I can pretty much subway it or walk from M-F if needed. I would expect local residents in NY to have their fee excluded.
For me, when I leave the city, I almost have to do it under the cover of darkness. I arrive early on Monday morning at 6am or 6:30am to avoid all of the traffic. If I leave on Friday, it is either at 7pm or later. Even at those times, it can still be an hour just to exit the GTA. My parents who live 10 miles from me is easily a 50 minute or more drive anytime between 8am and 7pm M-F
I am fortunate I can walk to my office. I can pretty much subway it or walk from M-F if needed. I would expect local residents in NY to have their fee excluded.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 01-20-18 at 07:47 AM.
01-20-18, 08:01 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
I've been to NYC, and I don't think traffic there is as bad as in the D.C. area. First of all, NYC has an enormous concentration of population downtown, but the suburbs don't sprawl and spread out as far as the D.C. area, which essentially runs 100 miles North/South from Baltimore to Fredericksburg, and 100 miles East/West from Chesapeake Bay to the mountains. D.C. traffic is probably second only to Los Angeles....which spreads out even further. Second, New York has a huge subway system, with multiple-tracks, which makes in easier to re-route trains around track-work or other stalled trains....the D.C. subway is very limited in scope, and has only two tracks (one in each direction), so when one is out of commission, it creates a mess. Third, NYC has an enormous number of cabs everywhere...you can get one almost by just snapping your fingers. Lots of people in the NYC area don't own cars.....but most people simply can't live in the D.C. area without a car, even if they use mass-transit to get to work. Fourth, NYC and L.A. both have a well-developed system of freeways...D.C. doesn't, because, decades ago, political opposition in the city stopped I-95 from running through the city, so I-66 and I-95 essentially stop at the city's borders, and the Beltway, which encircles the city and is one of the most congested highways in the country, has to carry both commuters, truck-commerce, local shopping/mall traffic, and the never-ending tourists from all over the country, all at once.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-20-18 at 08:10 AM.
01-20-18, 08:18 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
I can tell you first hand it is impossible to effectively get somewhere car, it is too expensive to drive (gas) and it is very very expensive to park. I have not been to NY for at least 15 years or so but when I was there it was bad. For those people who are driving in from the suburbs, I question their sanity or why they want a job where they are, about a third of my employees who work for me either transit in to the city or they drive in, the average commute I have been told by them is about an 1 hour and 20 minutes by car and a little under if they are taking the train. I know one such employee who trains it in to work everyday at a cost $320 a month, he has to take one train and then walk the rest. Everyone who works for me has a parking spot paid for or I pay some of there transit money.
Needless to say, I'm glad I'm retired.
01-20-18, 08:22 AM
#35
The biggest problem right now are Ubers in Manhattan. Uber and other rideshare companies added like 200k cars, and they are often driven by people with third world approach to traffic rules. And I personally don't even understand who and why even uses them to get around within Manhattan, especially around most congested parts.
01-20-18, 08:54 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
The biggest problem right now are Ubers in Manhattan. Uber and other rideshare companies added like 200k cars, and they are often driven by people with third world approach to traffic rules. And I personally don't even understand who and why even uses them to get around within Manhattan, especially around most congested parts.
I don't have any experience with Ubers (never have used one)...but, from what I understand, many of Uber's problems have to do with the fact that they aren't regulated like cab companies. Essentially, you pay your money and take your chance. I've heard of people being robbed, assaulted, even raped by Uber drivers....and also the other way around, with some Uber drivers themselves being attacked or robbed by customers.
01-20-18, 09:52 AM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
I don't understand what all the uproar is about the congestion in a city like New York. Traffic has always been bad in New York and it is not going to get any better by charging people to come into the city. There is no one thing that is going to make it change. I live right in downtown Toronto from Monday to Friday, I am not about to say that the traffic is worse than NY but it is very, very bad. Now in my 27th year living where I am located I can tell you first hand it is impossible to effectively get somewhere car, it is too expensive to drive (gas) and it is very very expensive to park. I have not been to NY for at least 15 years or so but when I was there it was bad. For those people who are driving in from the suburbs, I question their sanity or why they want a job where they are, about a third of my employees who work for me either transit in to the city or they drive in, the average commute I have been told by them is about an 1 hour and 20 minutes by car and a little under if they are taking the train. I know one such employee who trains it in to work everyday at a cost $320 a month, he has to take one train and then walk the rest. Everyone who works for me has a parking spot paid for or I pay some of there transit money.
For me, when I leave the city, I almost have to do it under the cover of darkness. I arrive early on Monday morning at 6am or 6:30am to avoid all of the traffic. If I leave on Friday, it is either at 7pm or later. Even at those times, it can still be an hour just to exit the GTA. My parents who live 10 miles from me is easily a 50 minute or more drive anytime between 8am and 7pm M-F
I am fortunate I can walk to my office. I can pretty much subway it or walk from M-F if needed. I would expect local residents in NY to have their fee excluded.
For me, when I leave the city, I almost have to do it under the cover of darkness. I arrive early on Monday morning at 6am or 6:30am to avoid all of the traffic. If I leave on Friday, it is either at 7pm or later. Even at those times, it can still be an hour just to exit the GTA. My parents who live 10 miles from me is easily a 50 minute or more drive anytime between 8am and 7pm M-F
I am fortunate I can walk to my office. I can pretty much subway it or walk from M-F if needed. I would expect local residents in NY to have their fee excluded.
But--I don't agree that tolls won't change how many cars come into Manhattan. It's a cost-benefit analysis. I know plenty of people who take a trip to NYC from Philly, and add up tolls and parking and weigh them against the cost of taking the train. At some point, there will be a critical mass of people that will switch to NJ Transit/Metro North/LIRR to come into Manhattan from where they are.
01-20-18, 09:56 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
I don't have any experience with Ubers (never have used one)...but, from what I understand, many of Uber's problems have to do with the fact that they aren't regulated like cab companies. Essentially, you pay your money and take your chance. I've heard of people being robbed, assaulted, even raped by Uber drivers....and also the other way around, with some Uber drivers themselves being attacked or robbed by customers.
And, if something bad happens to you, with Uber/Lyft, you have the driver's name and license number right in your app ride history. With a regular cab, you have to make sure you remember to look at the driver's info posted in the cab and remember it later on.
01-20-18, 03:04 PM
#39
I don't have any experience with Ubers (never have used one)...but, from what I understand, many of Uber's problems have to do with the fact that they aren't regulated like cab companies. Essentially, you pay your money and take your chance. I've heard of people being robbed, assaulted, even raped by Uber drivers....and also the other way around, with some Uber drivers themselves being attacked or robbed by customers.
01-20-18, 04:17 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Mike I've taken hundreds of uber rides at this point it's funny reading you say you "heard" this or that but I've never had any issues. Same goes for females I know, sure there are incidents but it's not as bad as you're implying. But NYC has the largest concentration of ubers I've seen anywhere and I've been to most major cities across the US.
That's why I said I did not have actual experience, and can't speak as if I do. Most of those Uber-stories I mentioned were in the media, on local news-stories, or on social-media.
01-20-18, 04:31 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
I don't understand what all the uproar is about the congestion in a city like New York. Traffic has always been bad in New York and it is not going to get any better by charging people to come into the city. There is no one thing that is going to make it change. I live right in downtown Toronto from Monday to Friday, I am not about to say that the traffic is worse than NY but it is very, very bad. Now in my 27th year living where I am located I can tell you first hand it is impossible to effectively get somewhere car, it is too expensive to drive (gas) and it is very very expensive to park. I have not been to NY for at least 15 years or so but when I was there it was bad. For those people who are driving in from the suburbs, I question their sanity or why they want a job where they are, about a third of my employees who work for me either transit in to the city or they drive in, the average commute I have been told by them is about an 1 hour and 20 minutes by car and a little under if they are taking the train. I know one such employee who trains it in to work everyday at a cost $320 a month, he has to take one train and then walk the rest. Everyone who works for me has a parking spot paid for or I pay some of there transit money.
For me, when I leave the city, I almost have to do it under the cover of darkness. I arrive early on Monday morning at 6am or 6:30am to avoid all of the traffic. If I leave on Friday, it is either at 7pm or later. Even at those times, it can still be an hour just to exit the GTA. My parents who live 10 miles from me is easily a 50 minute or more drive anytime between 8am and 7pm M-F
I am fortunate I can walk to my office. I can pretty much subway it or walk from M-F if needed. I would expect local residents in NY to have their fee excluded.
For me, when I leave the city, I almost have to do it under the cover of darkness. I arrive early on Monday morning at 6am or 6:30am to avoid all of the traffic. If I leave on Friday, it is either at 7pm or later. Even at those times, it can still be an hour just to exit the GTA. My parents who live 10 miles from me is easily a 50 minute or more drive anytime between 8am and 7pm M-F
I am fortunate I can walk to my office. I can pretty much subway it or walk from M-F if needed. I would expect local residents in NY to have their fee excluded.
The BIG ISSUE here like Och mentioned is there is no easy way to get to Manhattan from the outer boroughs.
So you can be literally 15-20miles away and not have a subway that is local.
Closest subway is about 20minutes walking from my house and no i cant drive to the subway station as there is no parking.
Once you are in Manhattan, there are subway lines that will take you anywhere but getting to the city is the main issue from the rest of the 4 boroughs.
Also MTA is a joke right now with massive overcrowding, signal issues, and just a transit system that is not able to handle the existing amount of riders forget about more.
Just try to get on a 4 or 5 train going to Wall St in the morning haha, its a complete mess.
So you can be literally 15-20miles away and not have a subway that is local.
Closest subway is about 20minutes walking from my house and no i cant drive to the subway station as there is no parking.
Once you are in Manhattan, there are subway lines that will take you anywhere but getting to the city is the main issue from the rest of the 4 boroughs.
Also MTA is a joke right now with massive overcrowding, signal issues, and just a transit system that is not able to handle the existing amount of riders forget about more.
Just try to get on a 4 or 5 train going to Wall St in the morning haha, its a complete mess.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-20-18 at 04:36 PM.
01-22-18, 11:26 AM
#42
I loved visiting Manhattan decades ago when I was a college student in Boston and would hang around with NYC-bred classmates on holidays. Great place to visit, wouldn't want to live there unless I was pulling in $500K+.
To me the simplest and fairest way to reduce congestion is to do a very basic transponder-based congestion pricing, in effect 24/7. It will cost a lot to drive around at 11am but practically nothing at 10pm. And the pricing would be dependent on the amount of space taken up by the vehicle: big trucks charged a lot more than a small sedan. And no exceptions except basic safety vehicles such as ambulances and police cars.
Over time the appropriate amount to charge would be clear, based on the degree of congestion reduction.
But I would be surprised that a supply-and-demand approach like this would ever be accepted by Manhattanites. It would go against their notion of egalitarianism.
To me the simplest and fairest way to reduce congestion is to do a very basic transponder-based congestion pricing, in effect 24/7. It will cost a lot to drive around at 11am but practically nothing at 10pm. And the pricing would be dependent on the amount of space taken up by the vehicle: big trucks charged a lot more than a small sedan. And no exceptions except basic safety vehicles such as ambulances and police cars.
Over time the appropriate amount to charge would be clear, based on the degree of congestion reduction.
But I would be surprised that a supply-and-demand approach like this would ever be accepted by Manhattanites. It would go against their notion of egalitarianism.
01-22-18, 11:37 AM
#43
No. What we have on I-66 goes beyond simple "Express" lanes. You pay, with the transponder (EZ-Pass), during rush-hours, to use the road, period. The amount is constantly calculated by the number of cars on the toll-stretch vs. the number waiting on the entrance ramps to get in.
01-22-18, 11:53 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
I loved visiting Manhattan decades ago when I was a college student in Boston and would hang around with NYC-bred classmates on holidays. Great place to visit, wouldn't want to live there unless I was pulling in $500K+.
To me the simplest and fairest way to reduce congestion is to do a very basic transponder-based congestion pricing, in effect 24/7. It will cost a lot to drive around at 11am but practically nothing at 10pm. And the pricing would be dependent on the amount of space taken up by the vehicle: big trucks charged a lot more than a small sedan. And no exceptions except basic safety vehicles such as ambulances and police cars.
Over time the appropriate amount to charge would be clear, based on the degree of congestion reduction.
But I would be surprised that a supply-and-demand approach like this would ever be accepted by Manhattanites. It would go against their notion of egalitarianism.
To me the simplest and fairest way to reduce congestion is to do a very basic transponder-based congestion pricing, in effect 24/7. It will cost a lot to drive around at 11am but practically nothing at 10pm. And the pricing would be dependent on the amount of space taken up by the vehicle: big trucks charged a lot more than a small sedan. And no exceptions except basic safety vehicles such as ambulances and police cars.
Over time the appropriate amount to charge would be clear, based on the degree of congestion reduction.
But I would be surprised that a supply-and-demand approach like this would ever be accepted by Manhattanites. It would go against their notion of egalitarianism.
My wife's boss had an apt. which was $16k/mo. back in 2008, and it wasn't even that nice. You live in a 3,500 sq. ft McMansion with a 3-car garage? Your house is nicer. I was once in Au Bon Pain, studying, and I overheard someone saying, "They're just kidding themselves thinking they're going to find what they want for $10k/mo. They need to double that figure."
It's not funny. If you pay those numbers, you should not leave the island, how can you justify going away for 3 days @ $16k or $20k/mo.? That doesn't even include the maint. fees.
True story, I did the Park Whiz and the attendant said how much you pay for this? I said $24. he goes, oh, that's more than I would charge you. I said wait a sec, why, this is oversized, right? He winks at me, not to me it isn't (my wife has a full sized SUV). I actually called Park Whiz and they gave me the difference back, nice of them.
