Jeep three-row Chinese SUV will be called Grand Commander, still waiting for US name
01-17-18, 10:28 AM
#1
01-17-18, 07:07 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
And in the same manner as Datsun, the original price will have as a goal bankrupting what's left of Detroit. As soon as GM etc., fold the Chinese can charge whatever they want. Chinese manufacturers have no OSHA, zoning, unions, haz-mat laws, toxic waste penalties, super-fund cleanup sites, strikes, minimum wage, building inspection, child labor laws etc. - like we were 100 years ago. They can use free labor if they want - their prisons are full.
01-17-18, 07:33 PM
#5
And in the same manner as Datsun, the original price will have as a goal bankrupting what's left of Detroit. As soon as GM etc., fold the Chinese can charge whatever they want. Chinese manufacturers have no OSHA, zoning, unions, haz-mat laws, toxic waste penalties, super-fund cleanup sites, strikes, minimum wage, building inspection, child labor laws etc. - like we were 100 years ago. They can use free labor if they want - their prisons are full.
But, isn't that the nature of the free market?
Not at all. Reagan was once approached by a Japanese consumer group, who complained of the low price for Japanese flat screen TVs in America. They pointed out that the American price was lower than the retail price in Japan despite having as carrying costs shipping and distributing. Then how did they make money? They raised the Japanese prices to make up the difference until they killed the American brands.
He didn't listen, and we know the result.
But, isn't that the nature of the free market?
Not at all. Reagan was once approached by a Japanese consumer group, who complained of the low price for Japanese flat screen TVs in America. They pointed out that the American price was lower than the retail price in Japan despite having as carrying costs shipping and distributing. Then how did they make money? They raised the Japanese prices to make up the difference until they killed the American brands.
He didn't listen, and we know the result.
01-17-18, 09:28 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
We have been fed a Grand Wagoneer, based on the Grand Cherokee, was just around the corner with 3-rows. Now all of a sudden this? Confused. The bigger brother was first according to everyone else.
01-17-18, 10:24 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i have no doubt the world vehicle market will be swimming in high quality chinese vehicles in a decade.
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01-18-18, 06:30 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
If what I have seen so far of the Buick Environ (the only Chinese-built vehicle to be imported into the U.S.) is any indication, I'd have to agree. Given what the workers on the assembly lines have to work with (which, of course, is what the engineers and designers provide for them), they are just as solid and well-screwed together as anything I've seen from Japan or Korea. The only flaw I could find in new Environs was a weird smell inside, from the chemicals used in the assembly-process, that is quite different from your typical nice new-car smell. That smell has also been noted (and explained) in owner-forums and other sources.
01-18-18, 09:09 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
01-19-18, 07:20 PM
#11
it's actually a joint venture of fca and Guangzhou in china, one more case where china govt 'lets' an outside company do business there as long as it's a joint venture with a 'business' (or govt) there, which of course allows the chinese entity to legally steal all the secrets and eventually build their own.
i have no doubt the world vehicle market will be swimming in high quality chinese vehicles in a decade.
i have no doubt the world vehicle market will be swimming in high quality chinese vehicles in a decade.
but still, it does not change the fact it is an FCA vehicle made for China, produced by local joint venture.
01-19-18, 07:39 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
so far no chinese have managed to export a high quality vehicle to western world at low prices... so while i agree that trade agreements were short sighted, by the time chinese manage to compete on their own, they will also have to cut down the trade barriers.
but still, it does not change the fact it is an FCA vehicle made for China, produced by local joint venture.
but still, it does not change the fact it is an FCA vehicle made for China, produced by local joint venture.
Have you checked out the Buick Envision? It's built in a Chinese plant, exported to the U.S., and sold here....although I don't know if you could consider something that starts at 34K (American dollars) to be "low-priced". From what I've seen with this vehicle, though, quality is not an issue, at least the way it comes out of the factory. It's as solidly screwed-together as anything I've seen from Japan or Korea, and drives quite well, by my tastes. The only flaws I found with it were a weird smell inside and a front seat that is somewhat smaller and less-comfortable than I'd prefer ....apparantly the Chinese can't duplicate the nice "new-car-smell" LOL.
01-20-18, 02:50 AM
#13
Have you checked out the Buick Envision? It's built in a Chinese plant, exported to the U.S., and sold here....although I don't know if you could consider something that starts at 34K (American dollars) to be "low-priced". From what I've seen with this vehicle, though, quality is not an issue, at least the way it comes out of the factory. It's as solidly screwed-together as anything I've seen from Japan or Korea, and drives quite well, by my tastes. The only flaws I found with it were a weird smell inside and a front seat that is somewhat smaller and less-comfortable than I'd prefer ....apparantly the Chinese can't duplicate the nice "new-car-smell" LOL.
Problem is once some big Chinese manufacturer exports to Europe or USA, their price is the same as everyone else's. So would you buy Buick Envision thats called Geely Envision, with chinese design and reliability (not reliable at level of western companies currently), but at the same prices?
This is why you dont have Chinese brands selling cars in first world countries.
01-20-18, 06:31 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
you have to understand that we are talking about Chinese manufacturer, not a GM company with factory in China. In the same sense that Corolla sold in Europe is produced in South Africa, which does not mean that South African manufacturer can produce same car on its own.
Problem is once some big Chinese manufacturer exports to Europe or USA, their price is the same as everyone else's. So would you buy Buick Envision thats called Geely Envision, with chinese design and reliability (not reliable at level of western companies currently), but at the same prices?
This is why you dont have Chinese brands selling cars in first world countries.
Problem is once some big Chinese manufacturer exports to Europe or USA, their price is the same as everyone else's. So would you buy Buick Envision thats called Geely Envision, with chinese design and reliability (not reliable at level of western companies currently), but at the same prices?
This is why you dont have Chinese brands selling cars in first world countries.
Plus the fact that vehicles from Chinese manufacturers have to meet American and European safety/MPG/emission standards, which adds to their development and production costs. I think that's the real reason why they don't export more of their own designs.....sooner or later, almost everything comes down to money.