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You never had any intention of actually buying a Stinger. To somebody a Stinger would appeal to an ES wouldn’t even be on the radar. The Stinger is a RWD sport sedan and the ES is a FWD Avalon/Camry based entry level luxury car, very different.
You never had any intention of actually buying a Stinger. To somebody a Stinger would appeal to an ES wouldn’t even be on the radar. The Stinger is a RWD sport sedan and the ES is a FWD Avalon/Camry based entry level luxury car, very different.
I own an ES and I am definitely interested in an AWD Stinger (or G70). But, I'll agree, I probably don't fit in the "typical" bucket!
Try again. Stinger that I drove is 11.02 lbs per HP.
2013 Lexus ES 350 weight per unit of HP is 12.12.
Nice try..
You compared an AWD Stinger to an older model FWD ES! I don't know what your older car weighs, but if you check a 2018, the ES is 13.32 lb/hp. Just compare factory quoted acceleration times if you doubt the difference. ES350 is 7.1 sec, the Stinger is 4.7 sec. The difference in speed you felt is not because you don't floor your ES, it is because the Stinger is much faster. Your ES is a bit larger inside, but not a great deal. In fact, the Stinger has more front seat leg room. The ES is quieter and rides softer but handling is much different. Your test Stinger had AWD and Apple Car-Play, features not available on any ES.
Comparing these 2 cars is really a stretch except that they overlap in price.
If you own a Lexus ES & are looking at moving to a KIA (I can't believe I'm even saying this here) then you're likely to compare the two. I don't get how simple that is and yet ppl here keep whining about it.
I think I would agree. But the ES would be far more appealing. Most purple will not go for the Stinger. (Not saying it is a bad car). The Cadenza is what most would compare and ES with. Then you have dealer experience and brand experience/expectations.
I do not understand why you are wasting your time telling everyone how the ES and Stinger are comparable.
ah, the expected 'no true scotsman' attack. and i'm sure he's not 'worried'.what online review source do you go to for cars with at least 20,000 miles? the only one i know is motorweek's long term update which only covers a handful of cars a year.
Edmonds.com will be doing a year long Stinger review
I see my thread has been resurrected, but has digressed somewhat. Let's keep it on topic folks.
On that note, it's fitting I provide an update. I'm close to 100 days (4000 km) into ownership.
THE GREAT:
- Car is an attention grabber. Many positive comments, including from luxury car owners. They are surprised to find out it's a Kia since I have the Korean-spec "E-Stinger" badging.
- Great cargo hauler. I've hauled a bike and a bookcase among other larger items.
- I didn't realize how convenient Android Auto is until this car. I use Waze for my commute, now on my 8" screen.
- I use the EVO Connect app to remote start my car - has been convenient to warm up the car for a couple mins at my work, before leaving.
- Ride comfort, driver seat comfort, and handling remain excellent.
- No wear with the seats/leather, steering wheel, or any of the plastics in the car (for perspective, the IS 's door panels scratched easily near the grab handle)
- No mechanical or electrical issues whatsoever. All the tech works as expected, 100% reliable to this point though very early still.
- Car feels tight, solid switchgear, controls, touch points, and no rattles, except for driver's door and rear hatch (see below).
- Love the power as I got to really open it up after break-in. Very minimal lag (significantly less so than the NX which is the most recent turbo owned that I can compare to). Low to mid, pulls very strongly. Upper, RC F pulls harder. Haven't done a 0-60 but I can believe a 4.6s sprint.
- NVH continues to impress me. Smooth and quiet 3.3TT V6 and minimal road/wind noise on the highway (better than IS, about like the A4)
- They got the Brembos right. Nearly as powerful as the RC F's 15" behemoths, but without the squeal and excessive brake dust.
- I dropped the car 1.2" on H&R springs, just enough to minimize the wheel gap.
The NOT SO-GREAT:
- Fit and finish is good, but missing the mark to fully compete in the luxury class in this specific area. For those interested, I also started a thread on stingerforum.org here that has more details:
1. The driver's door is slightly misaligned, does not close/latch tightly, and results in a small ticking/squeaking from the slight motion of the door against the rubber. In all fairness however, I had the same issue with my '13RX.
2. Found one paint defect (particle beneath the clear coat) on the fuel door. Never found any paint defect on the Lexus vehicles I owned.
3. Stitching had a couple of small loose threads. Similar to what I've seen with Lincoln. Never seen this defect with Lexus' perfect Takumi stitching!
- TSB applied by my dealer apparently fixed the rear hatch rattle, but rattle returned recently.
- Fuel economy: averaging 11.5 L/100km (70% hwy/30% city) (20.5mpg), but about what I got with the IS with 100+ less hp and torque.
- Exhaust sound, or lack-there-of (though the flip side is a quiet ride). I will be fixing that later next week
- And worst for last (which bothers me a bit every time I drive car): the unacceptably cheap paddle shifters. My son's $150 PS4 Thrustmaster steering wheel paddles feel substantially better. The Stinger's not only feel cheap, but they squeak too! However, some silicone spray has virtually eliminated the noise but not the cheap-plastic feel. Other owners have not posted this issue so I plan to bring this up to my dealer as a warranty fix (and show them the video below).
So almost 100 days already with the Stinger - what are my overall impressions? Any regrets like I had with the '17 A4 which made me trade it after only 6 weeks of ownership (see thread)?
Hell no! And in fact, I even got over the badge. Notwithstanding the minor quality issues posted above, the car continues to excite me and I look forward to driving it daily. This one is a keeper, for now until I get bored. Will provide updates as warranted.
This is exactly the case. Very few people are going to give up the luxury badge for a KIA. Past history also suggests the brand will not be able to succeed at a higher price point. The K900 and the Boreggo both have simply not succeed. Then you have to add in the fact that the overall car market is contracting and not expanding. So you need to take from somewhere as there is no surplus buyers looking for new cars. Finally, it must be mentioned that KIA, Hyundai and Genesis are down about 13% in sales for the year 2017, so if they can’t sell their other cars,, it is difficult to justify a new car that does not align with what a brand is supposed to be As for the media, they want something to write about. It’s exciting for the media to have something like this as it gets attention. It gets people talking. The media should be asking the question of whether the brand can support the price points. You need to really love KIA to want to buy this. Kinda like how you need to really like Toyoya to want an Avalon or a Land Cruiser.I think a loaded Accord or a loaded Camry V6 are more desirable than an entry level or mid level Stinger.
I see my thread has been resurrected, but has digressed somewhat. Let's keep it on topic folks.
On that note, it's fitting I provide an update. I'm close to 100 days (4000 km) into ownership.
THE GREAT:
- Car is an attention grabber. Many positive comments, including from luxury car owners. They are surprised to find out it's a Kia since I have the Korean-spec "E-Stinger" badging.
- Great cargo hauler. I've hauled a bike and a bookcase among other larger items.
- I didn't realize how convenient Android Auto is until this car. I use Waze for my commute, now on my 8" screen.
- I use the EVO Connect app to remote start my car - has been convenient to warm up the car for a couple mins at my work, before leaving.
- Ride comfort, driver seat comfort, and handling remain excellent.
- No wear with the seats/leather, steering wheel, or any of the plastics in the car (for perspective, the IS 's door panels scratched easily near the grab handle)
- No mechanical or electrical issues whatsoever. All the tech works as expected, 100% reliable to this point though very early still.
- Car feels tight, solid switchgear, controls, touch points, and no rattles, except for driver's door and rear hatch (see below).
- Love the power as I got to really open it up after break-in. Very minimal lag (significantly less so than the NX which is the most recent turbo owned that I can compare to). Low to mid, pulls very strongly. Upper, RC F pulls harder. Haven't done a 0-60 but I can believe a 4.6s sprint.
- NVH continues to impress me. Smooth and quiet 3.3TT V6 and minimal road/wind noise on the highway (better than IS, about like the A4)
- They got the Brembos right. Nearly as powerful as the RC F's 15" behemoths, but without the squeal and excessive brake dust.
- I dropped the car 1.2" on H&R springs, just enough to minimize the wheel gap.
The NOT SO-GREAT:
- Fit and finish is good, but missing the mark to fully compete in the luxury class in this specific area. For those interested, I also started a thread on stingerforum.org here that has more details:
1. The driver's door is slightly misaligned, does not close/latch tightly, and results in a small ticking/squeaking from the slight motion of the door against the rubber. In all fairness however, I had the same issue with my '13RX.
2. Found one paint defect (particle beneath the clear coat) on the fuel door. Never found any paint defect on the Lexus vehicles I owned.
3. Stitching had a couple of small loose threads. Similar to what I've seen with Lincoln. Never seen this defect with Lexus' perfect Takumi stitching!
- TSB applied by my dealer apparently fixed the rear hatch rattle, but rattle returned recently.
- Fuel economy: averaging 11.5 L/100km (70% hwy/30% city) (20.5mpg), but about what I got with the IS with 100+ less hp and torque.
- Exhaust sound, or lack-there-of (though the flip side is a quiet ride). I will be fixing that later next week
- And worst for last (which bothers me a bit every time I drive car): the unacceptably cheap paddle shifters. My son's $150 PS4 Thrustmaster steering wheel paddles feel substantially better. The Stinger's not only feel cheap, but they squeak too! However, some silicone spray has virtually eliminated the noise but not the cheap-plastic feel. Other owners have not posted this issue so I plan to bring this up to my dealer as a warranty fix (and show them the video below).
So almost 100 days already with the Stinger - what are my overall impressions? Any regrets like I had with the '17 A4 which made me trade it after only 6 weeks of ownership (see thread)?
Hell no! And in fact, I even got over the badge. Notwithstanding the minor quality issues posted above, the car continues to excite me and I look forward to driving it daily. This one is a keeper, for now until I get bored. Will provide updates as warranted.
Really nice to hear some balanced feedback. Thanks.
What will be key for Kia is to stick to this model in the long run and make sure they update it. This is a conquest sales car and a halo model for Kia. It looks like buyers like corrado see value in this car. It's not a luxury brand and doesn't claim to be. That's why it's such a surprise from a company like Kia.
btw Thanks for the update on your ownership experience corrado.
The US pricing is a big hurdle. It's not a $50K car and maybe they were looking for the initial rush of early adopters who read magazine reviews. This car is so much better a deal in Canada, so it appears Kia's marketing people told the company that Americans are rich and Canadians are penny pinching types who have less disposable income.
...
The US pricing is a big hurdle. It's not a $50K car and maybe they were looking for the initial rush of early adopters who read magazine reviews. This car is so much better a deal in Canada, so it appears Kia's marketing people told the company that Americans are rich and Canadians are penny pinching types who have less disposable income.
I think sticker, ~$52k for an AWD GT2, may be a couple grand high. It appears they are now dealing them, so you should be able to get one for <$50k.
I saw my first one in the wild today. A guy in his 40's was driving it. My wife, non enthusiast, thought it was a BMW. It will be interesting to see how it does once the G70 hits the states. I'm seriously having an upper mid-life crises! I'm starting to feel too young for my ES.
Nice write-up! Keep us updated on the rattle "fix".
I'm still up in the air on my next vehicle. It could be anything from a sports car, to a lux wagon, but I'm liking what I'm seeing from the Koreans.
Kia is originally started as a bicycle maker in Korea. Now Hyundai owns the company. Both companies' products are influenced by German engineering hiring German designers, engineers. (In another word copycat) Personally I don't like the name in English, KIA = Killed in action = 기아 in Korean = 起亞 in Chinese. Their K900 was originally named K9 (Canine = dog) in Korea. Looks like now KIA brand is more popular than Hyundai domestically/internationally. Being native Korean(left my home town Seoul more than 50 years ago) So far I feel guilty of not owning any Korean brand. I notice Korean people don't like logo "KIA" or Hyundai(they say logo is distorted letter H) In my family there are 4 vehicles, all German top tier model in their respective class. We had Acura, Lexus, Honda, Subartu, etc. in the past. I'd like to hear feedback after a year or so how the GT90 is doing. Congrats. and good to hear you like the vehicle.
Kia is originally started as a bicycle maker in Korea. Now Hyundai owns the company. Both companies' products are influenced by German engineering hiring German designers, engineers. (In another word copycat) Personally I don't like the name in English, KIA = Killed in action = 기아 in Korean = 起亞 in Chinese. Their K900 was originally named K9 (Canine = dog) in Korea. Looks like now KIA brand is more popular than Hyundai domestically/internationally. Being native Korean(left my home town Seoul more than 50 years ago) So far I feel guilty of not owning any Korean brand. I notice Korean people don't like logo "KIA" or Hyundai(they say logo is distorted letter H) In my family there are 4 vehicles, all German top tier model in their respective class. We had Acura, Lexus, Honda, Subartu, etc. in the past. I'd like to hear feedback after a year or so how the GT90 is doing. Congrats. and good to hear you like the vehicle.
I drove the new LS and the Stingers this last week. LS was fine but the Stingers' really impressed me. My cars are an IS and a BMW. For the Stinger's talent I will happily look past its brand.
Really nice to hear some balanced feedback. Thanks.
Thanks Jill. Keeping it real is how we will benefit from each other in this community.
Originally Posted by MattyG
What will be key for Kia is to stick to this model in the long run and make sure they update it. This is a conquest sales car and a halo model for Kia. It looks like buyers like corrado see value in this car. It's not a luxury brand and doesn't claim to be. That's why it's such a surprise from a company like Kia.
btw Thanks for the update on your ownership experience corrado.
The US pricing is a big hurdle. It's not a $50K car and maybe they were looking for the initial rush of early adopters who read magazine reviews. This car is so much better a deal in Canada, so it appears Kia's marketing people told the company that Americans are rich and Canadians are penny pinching types who have less disposable income.
You're welcome! Totally agree and I'll keep saying it. I would likely have not bought this car in the US as it is priced $6-7K too high. It should have maxed out at 45-46K with all the extras Canada gets ("semi-aniline" headliner, 360 cam, wireless charging, heated rear seats).
Originally Posted by Mike728
I think sticker, ~$52k for an AWD GT2, may be a couple grand high. It appears they are now dealing them, so you should be able to get one for <$50k.
I saw my first one in the wild today. A guy in his 40's was driving it. My wife, non enthusiast, thought it was a BMW. It will be interesting to see how it does once the G70 hits the states. I'm seriously having an upper mid-life crises! I'm starting to feel too young for my ES.
Haha, a couple folks at work thought the same. From the front, with the "pseudo-Kidney-grille" shape and Korean-spec badge, it's easy to mistaken it as a Bimmer to the non-connoisseur.
Originally Posted by Htony
Kia is originally started as a bicycle maker in Korea. Now Hyundai owns the company. Both companies' products are influenced by German engineering hiring German designers, engineers. (In another word copycat) Personally I don't like the name in English, KIA = Killed in action = 기아 in Korean = 起亞 in Chinese. Their K900 was originally named K9 (Canine = dog) in Korea. Looks like now KIA brand is more popular than Hyundai domestically/internationally. Being native Korean(left my home town Seoul more than 50 years ago) So far I feel guilty of not owning any Korean brand. I notice Korean people don't like logo "KIA" or Hyundai(they say logo is distorted letter H) In my family there are 4 vehicles, all German top tier model in their respective class. We had Acura, Lexus, Honda, Subartu, etc. in the past. I'd like to hear feedback after a year or so how the GT90 is doing. Congrats. and good to hear you like the vehicle.
Thanks. It's my first Kia and never in a million years did I think to own one. And same here. I don't like the actual look of the"KIA" badge hence why I switched to the Korean-spec E-badge which, from your feedback on how it's perceived there, makes sense now why this car has its own badge. Thanks for sharing.
Originally Posted by webra
I drove the new LS and the Stingers this last week. LS was fine but the Stingers' really impressed me. My cars are an IS and a BMW. For the Stinger's talent I will happily look past its brand.
Yep, I know the feeling. I did not expect to buy this car when I saw it in person and test drove it.
04-07-18, 02:16 PM
Will provide updates as warranted.
It will be interesting to see how it does once the G70 hits the states. I'm seriously having an upper mid-life crises! I'm starting to feel too young for my ES. 
