All wheel drive, four-wheel drive, is it really necessary?
01-10-18, 06:56 PM
#241
AFAIK some Subarus have torque vectoring, but its done via e-lsd approach, by applying brakes, not with true torque vectoring differentials used by Acura, Audi, BMW and Merc. Not even to mention even more expensive cars like NSX where they have gasoline engine driving rear wheels and individual electric motors driving front wheels. But of course Subarus system is superior to all the Honda, Toyota and other vehicles where AWD systems are limited capability hacks to the primarily FWD drivetrains.
01-10-18, 07:05 PM
#242
01-10-18, 07:06 PM
#243
I always enjoy watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Ed...RUdGgn5fMepDJg
This is real four wheel drive. They don't make vehicles like this anymore and haven't for a very long time aside from maybe a Wrangler (but who wants to drive that cheap/unreliable piece of junk anyway). All this new technology is just imitation and does not even come close in terms of capability. Yes Toyota has its modern ATRAC and other gadgets like Crawl Control and other manufacturers have their versions of these systems, but when you watch these modern trucks go in hard terrain, it's not nearly as smooth or confidence inspiring as a vehicle with a fully mechanical 4X4 locked system.
You can spend all day arguing who has the best and most technologically advanced AWD system, but none of these modern cars would even make it to the beginning of this type of terrain.
I can only see myself getting AWD in a passenger vehicle if it's something really high horsepower to put the power down effectively with regular street tires year round. A 200bhp Subaru compact car does not need AWD and 99% of the drivers who buy cars like that don't even know how to use AWD properly. All it does is create a false sense of capability but really you're just adding unnecessary weight and killing your MPGs in cars like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Ed...RUdGgn5fMepDJg
This is real four wheel drive. They don't make vehicles like this anymore and haven't for a very long time aside from maybe a Wrangler (but who wants to drive that cheap/unreliable piece of junk anyway). All this new technology is just imitation and does not even come close in terms of capability. Yes Toyota has its modern ATRAC and other gadgets like Crawl Control and other manufacturers have their versions of these systems, but when you watch these modern trucks go in hard terrain, it's not nearly as smooth or confidence inspiring as a vehicle with a fully mechanical 4X4 locked system.
You can spend all day arguing who has the best and most technologically advanced AWD system, but none of these modern cars would even make it to the beginning of this type of terrain.
I can only see myself getting AWD in a passenger vehicle if it's something really high horsepower to put the power down effectively with regular street tires year round. A 200bhp Subaru compact car does not need AWD and 99% of the drivers who buy cars like that don't even know how to use AWD properly. All it does is create a false sense of capability but really you're just adding unnecessary weight and killing your MPGs in cars like that.
01-10-18, 07:15 PM
#244
On a driveway? The car locks torque to varying degrees on most of them if they even have it on automatic transmission vehicles. That video is an icy driveway with next to no slope on it. The RAV will only be able to lock torque to a 50/50 front to rear split.
The Subaru will do it side to side and send 100% to the wheels that can gain traction. And do that on a real incline. As I said, not all Subaru awd systems are necessarily the same design. The STI is vastly different from the Crosstrek. Which transmission you have makes a difference too.
The Subaru will do it side to side and send 100% to the wheels that can gain traction. And do that on a real incline. As I said, not all Subaru awd systems are necessarily the same design. The STI is vastly different from the Crosstrek. Which transmission you have makes a difference too.
But as far as sending torque side to side, Subaru does it by applying brake to wheels that are slipping, so its not sending anywhere near 100% of toque to wheels with traction, and this setup is only available on certain Subaru models, and Subaru isn't alone in this approach, many other manufacturers do the same thing. It is really an extension of the vehicle stability system. Systems with true torque vectoring can send much more torque to wheels with traction, but still nowhere near 100% to each axle, not to mention individual wheel.
01-10-18, 07:15 PM
#245
The video showed what a true 4x4 looks like. Never said it came in the US. The only thing in the US close to that was the 80, hence why I said they don't make anything SIMILAR to a 105 and haven't for a very long time....20 years to be exact. Sorry that my post confused you Sir.
Wrangler and 70 are both compact/midsize vehicles nowhere near the size or weight of a Land Cruiser.
Wrangler and 70 are both compact/midsize vehicles nowhere near the size or weight of a Land Cruiser.
01-10-18, 07:25 PM
#246
192.52" vs 193.30" length
Those 70's are considerably narrower and smaller feeling inside. Nowhere near the same size.
That posted width for the 70 is with the flares by the way..... which are at least a couple inches on each side.
The 105 is a giant inside compared to a 70 wagon GXL which doesn't even have a 3rd row.
Last edited by 97-SC300; 01-10-18 at 07:30 PM.
01-10-18, 07:27 PM
#247
The point was to show a vehicle with locking diffs, the example happened to be a 105. I can post some fully locked 100s or 80s to prove the same point. What is the issue that you have?
01-10-18, 07:30 PM
#248
I think comparing best stuff from Subaru to mediocre stuff in RAV4 is not exactly fair. Proper Toyota/Lexus use Torsen LSD center diff.
01-10-18, 07:50 PM
#250
76.38" vs 73.62" width
192.52" vs 193.30" length
Those 70's are considerably narrower and smaller feeling inside. Nowhere near the same size.
That posted width for the 70 is with the flares by the way..... which are at least a couple inches on each side.
The 105 is a giant inside compared to a 70 wagon GXL which doesn't even have a 3rd row.
192.52" vs 193.30" length
Those 70's are considerably narrower and smaller feeling inside. Nowhere near the same size.
That posted width for the 70 is with the flares by the way..... which are at least a couple inches on each side.
The 105 is a giant inside compared to a 70 wagon GXL which doesn't even have a 3rd row.
Your claim was that 70 series is a compact/midsize compared to Land Cruiser. It's clearly not. Just a little bit narrower and, in fact, longer. Oh take that - it's also taller! There are indeed configs that are midsize but not all of them are.
01-10-18, 07:58 PM
#251
Compare the interior dimensions side by side and you'll see it's not even close.
The 70 you mentioned is only a hair longer because the rear bumper sticks out inches more, it's not longer because it's a bigger truck that is for damn sure.
EDIT: this whole argument that a 70 is the same size as a 100 is silly and I am done with it.
01-10-18, 08:10 PM
#252
The issue is they never made fully locked 100 series 
If you find one it was fully locked using aftermarket stuff. 200 series, made to a present day, can be fully locked with aftermarket stuff as well.
If you find one it was fully locked using aftermarket stuff. 200 series, made to a present day, can be fully locked with aftermarket stuff as well.
01-10-18, 09:08 PM
#254
Lexus Fanatic
01-10-18, 09:11 PM
#255
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YidkaqlW9ns
Acura's SH AWD is excellent in the snow/ice. Torque vectoring can help in many situations. It handles very well even for a fwd based system.
Acura's SH AWD is excellent in the snow/ice. Torque vectoring can help in many situations. It handles very well even for a fwd based system.