Toys4RJill

I am willing to bet that the interior of the Road Master has less volume or the same volume as a current day Accord or Camry.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i'm not even sure what the difference would be these days. are you considering 'suv' as body on frame because if so there's very few of those left.

so you're saying the RX is not an suv? anyway, yes, the rx, highlander, rav4, crv, grand cherokee and many others are easy to get in and out of.

?? what about impala, xts, lacrosse, to name 3?

mmarshall

Depends on how you view the term "full-size". Many argue that the Crown Vic/Town Car was the last true American full-size car...and even they pale in comparison to the big luxury cars of the 60s and early 70s I grew up with....lengths up to 230", wheelbases of 125-130", and 5500 lb. weights.

For the record, I'd consider the Mercedes S550/Maybach and Genesis G90 are probably the best examples of a mass-produced full-size car by today's standards, short of a Rolls Royce. The Lexus LS460, BMW 7-series, Cadillac CT6, Lincoln Continental, and Audi A8 come close. The Lacrosse, Avalon, Cadenza, Impala, and G80 are (borderline) full-sizers by today's standards. The current ES350 and Lincoln MKC are (slightly stretched) mid-sizers.

Toys4RJill

I feel there needs to a clear distinction between a cross over and an SUV. Body on frame or RWD based should be the criteria in my opinion for what makes a SUV an SUV. A Jeep Compass, RAV4 or a RX should not be put in the same category as a 4Runner or GX or Grand Cherokee. Most mid size CUVs or SUVs are easier to get in and out. But some are not. Just my thoughts.

As as for the Avalon, the rear was just enormous and trunk was huge. The Lacrosse and Impala were not as big.

mmarshall

I tend to agree with you on that...but it must also be remembered that even most of today's BOF SUVs are not used (primarily) off-road like they once were. So, in design, yes, they are different from CUVs and crossovers, but, most of the time, aren't actually used much differently except when it comes to heavier-duty towing.

Going to have to differ a little on the Impala. It has actually been criticized in the auto-press for its long rear overhang and bulkiness. The Lacrosse has some of that bulkiness, but significantly less trunk space.

mjeds

The 2011 Avalon (the 3rd Gen or last gen) had a cargo capacity of 14 cubic feet the 2012 Impala a cargo capacity of 18 cubic feet.. and the current Gen 4 Avalon has a cargo capacity of 16 cubic feet.. The last Gen Avalon was not the "last of the full size mainstream car" by a long shot, and the Avalon is not a full size sedan when you compared to a G90 or even an LS460 with 18 cubic feet or an S-Class that has 20 cubic feet.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it will be interesting to see what toyota does with the 4runner. i expect a refresh but not replacement any time soon because why screw with it - it sells tons and they make buckets of money on it. but it's obviously not a mainstream vehicle compared to rav4, highlander, etc.

other suvs became, in your terminology, crossovers, like the explorer, which used to be rwd body on frame and is now fwd unibody. i think for 99.9% of the buyer, they don't care.

Toys4RJill

Autoweek host made a good distinction. An SUV should be able to at least drive over a fallen tree that is close to 10in. I don't see most cross overs doing that.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

for the record, while they may be 'mass produced', they're not mainstream which was the term LexsCTJill used.

again, those are high end luxury niche vehicles, not mainstream.

so as we've seen and i think we're all agreeing on, actual mainstream large sedans are a dying breed. but not dead, and not going to be any time soon.

Toys4RJill

Thanks. What is the interior volume of the last gen Avalon vs new?

mjeds

not mainstream?

MBZ sold 2,666 S-class models in October, and 2,863 in November Avalon only sold 2,648 in October and 2,453 in November.

not only did the S-class outsell the Avalon in those 2 months, but over the last 4 years MBZ has sold 176,239 S-Class vehicles to Toyota's 138,298 Avalon's. the S-class is very much mainstream and comparable in this conversation. . it cost nearly 3 times as much and MBZ sells more than Toyota in this segment.

Now of course if you add in the ES to the Avalon sales seeing as the ES is basically the next step up from the Avalon , that adds another 174,344 to the Toyota total, so in that case Toyota does actually sell more.

Toys4RJill

ok chill out. I think I said mainstream North American brand. But I am too tired to go back and look. A Mercedes S class is not what we are discussing. Who brought it up?

Toys4RJill

It will be interesting. Toyota has done an interesting job of making the 4Runner along with some others into two separate sort of models. The reg 4Runner and limited are sort of different vehicles. I don't think they will remove the body on frame design. The 4Runner, Prado, GX must clear 200K worldwide units, if not more. My big fear is that they might move 4Runner production to the US as it would be a shame as it is kind of cool to get a Japan made Toyota every once in a while.

Can't nt be believe Toyota sells 10k per month in the US. They have very high satisfaction rates and I think the 4Runner has the best resale value among all cars in the US. But I could be wrong.

mjeds

Passenger Volume?

2011 Avalon 106.9 Cubic feet
2012 Impala 104.5 Cubic feet
2017 Avalon 103.6 Cubic feet.

With that in mind, the 2011 Avalon is smaller in over all length (197.6") that both the 2012 Impala (200.4") and the 2017 Avalon (199.3")

Also note the wheel base on the 2011 is the same on as the 2017 Avalon (111") and the Impala was 110.5"

Yeah the 2011 Avalon had a bit more interior space, mostly due to the smaller dash and center console that 2017, But the 2017 is a bigger vehicle overall.

Toys4RJill

Thanks for the research. My perceptions are wrong. (Wish others could admit they were). Thanks. Current Avalon and old Avalon are pretty much the same size.