Shintsu

Please bear with me on this lengthy post...

I have been bouncing the idea around in my head as I think I have found two pretty clean one owner examples of an LS430 and LS460. I like certain qualities about each, but would really appreciate some thoughts from others here. I have a '15 F150 which is a solid, nice truck (I don't like Ford for anything else, but props where due - this one is great). Thing is, it's very expensive. I do nearly have it paid off, but I think I was a bit over ambitious with this idea of hauling things. I do like how big and safe it is and it has great power, last thing I ever expected when I started looking at them. But I'm getting 15 MPG from a Ecoboost...not so "eco" it turns out.

Anyway, despite being in my 20s I have always had a thing for big luxury cars. Not really sure why, but I have fond memories of a '99 Deville I had for a short time and I think I was 20 at the time. The big solid doors, the big cushy seats, that sweet V8 sound and the way it puts the power down. I think these are the things I appreciate about the LS series and why I don't think I'd enjoy a GS (which is a more sporty car without going full into the IS territory). My other car is a C5 Z06, so I really don't need another car to be that sporty anyway.

Here are links to both cars that I have found:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...3313/overview/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...3069/overview/





Safety is a large factor for me, as in Kentucky there are lots of windy two lane roads with no street lights. I don't have to drive down any roads like that regularly, but it's what drove me to the truck (since I really dislike SUVs as a concept). I kind of throw it out the window when in my Z06...but I refused to let that prevent me from driving a car I always wanted to have. It does get cold here and we have been known to get snow/ice sometimes. I don't drive the Z06 in the winter (summer tires) nor in the rain (it gets filthy and I'm obsessive about cleaning it). I don't have a garage though, nor do I live in a wealthy area so I do wonder if a Lexus will look out of place...I don't guess any more than my Z06 looks out of place.

That said the '04 LS430 is the perfect color scheme IMO, I love black ext/int. Nothing is more executive than that. Also while I'm asking, why do some LS430's have a blueish tint to their headlights and others don't? But the LS430 aesthetically doesn't look as good as an LS460 IMO. I still think the LS430 is a great looking car, but you just know it's older by looking at it. The early LS460s still look very contemporary IMO and I like the styling and updated interior. This LS460 is maroon, I like red cars just fine but I share a driveway with nothing but red cars so that probably slightly turns me off of it. I also don't care as much for beige interiors compared to gray or black, but I still think it looks good and it's in great condition save for some scratches on the drivers interior panel around the hand grip.

Years ago I drove an LS430 and remembered being fairly impressed with how it drove for a big car, but it was the first one I looked at and silver...and I do not care for silver cars, so it was more to just get a feel for how it drove. I know the 430 is reliable and the '04 is a one owner with only 108k miles, and I prefer the touch screen to the basic radio. But $10,500 is a decent chunk of coin for a 2004 anything. Small overlap testing didn't exist back then, so I wonder how well it would do - but then, all the pictures and stuff I find of crashed 430's still look like they do exceptionally well. It's not like my C5 where I don't even have side airbags and it's fairly lightweight...I have not driven this particular '04 LS430 however.

I did drive the LS460, it's very clean and had no scratches or anything that I could see. It was a two owner and not a one owner with one minor accident, but looked well cared for. Everything seemed to work, though the adjustable suspension really didn't seem to change much in any mode I put it in. I don't know if the changes are subtle or if I have to drive a bit more aggressively to notice it - or if it might be broken...It rode well, but I don't recall feeling absolutely blown away by the smoothness of the ride. My truck surprisingly rides very well, it's just bouncy over certain pavement types but it's very subdued. Maybe I'll find the 430 isn't as smooth as my truck in ride either, but does this mean that now I would actually like a GX/LX? The 460 was a little underwhelming on the power as well, it went but I guess I expected more for 380 HP and an 8 speed. I love the AWD though, I drove it on a rainy day and really liked the auto wipers and it felt very planted. I'm sure a 430 can be solid in snow and rain too, but RWD is always going to be a little more prone to fishtailing if you're not careful than an AWD. But I don't know of the maintenance differences between the two. The salesman said he owned a 430 himself and said the AWD does have a noticeable hit on the performance, but this was a Toyota dealer and not a Lexus dealer.

I know if I go for a 460 it must be an '09 or newer to avoid any of the possible woes of the '07 and '08s. Ideally a 430 would be an '06, but the '04 is better than an '01-'03 at least. I know Lexus makes extremely reliable cars, and these LS are very good in that regard otherwise I wouldn't consider one. I have told a friend I mentioned this to that 100k miles is nothing on these, I tend to believe that truly. I just don't know if there might be a few edge cases I might have to watch out for that would be a bit costly on either the 430 or 460. Being young too, I feel like the 460 can pass for a younger person's car better than the more sedate looking 430...but I'm not kidding here guys, I like those old Cadillac Broughams. And not the stupid lowered ones or anything, like just a plain old clean one. But those things are gas hogs, really antiquated, and the prototypical American luxury barge of yore.

Advice or other thoughts? Obviously I am not in a rush to buy anything, I could easily keep my truck if I wanted to but I like the look a nice Lexus sedan gives off more. The truck image doesn't really fit me...

Aron9000

This might sound weird, but I actually like the LS430 a bit more, it just feels a bit more solid, a bit more quality than the LS460. Rides a bit softer as well.

What I'm not sold on is that touch screen in the mentioned LS430, the graphics/interface are so dated IMO, you are better off with the regular radio/climate control with buttons. Its pretty easy on these cars to add a bluetooth controller to the factory Mark Levinsion sound system(which is awesome if its working right IMO), that nets you bluetooth hands free calling and can sync music wirelessly through your phone as well.

Main thing is what's the price difference between the two???? I'd also look for maintenance records on each, and I'd avoid either car if they have the air suspension option. Also $10,500 does seem a bit high on that 2004 with those miles, unless it is just immaculately clean with full service records(I'm talking mint interior, no cracks on the woodgrain steering wheel, no rock chips, no headlight fading, no swirls in the paint, name brand tires with good tread,etc)

Shintsu

I linked both cars, but the 460 is roughly $6,000 more. I just don't like the look of the LS430 without the touch screen, it looks too spartan. The 460 seemed to be well put together, though maybe I'm not following what is meant. Are we talking about like the buttons and stuff you touch on the interior or the overall feel of the car as it drives down the road? Also, I was pretty sure every 460 had air ride?

Aron9000

I think air ride suspension was still an option on the LS460, maybe somebody can chime in here. As for the two cars pictured here, I'm still digging that black/black LS430. My SC300 has that really light tan interior, the leather is a PITA to keep clean on that car, and I don't eat/drink in that car, I'm just talking about the dirt from your clothes getting into the seat.

IMO offer that dealer $8000 for that 2004 LS430, if it is super duper clean, no accident, no bs type of car. Meet him in the middle somewhere if he is asking $10.500, I'd say that is a fair price. Keep in mind nobody wants an old luxury sedan in this SUV gone wild market. If this were a nice 2004 Tahoe priced right, I'm sure the dealer would have a buyer the next day.

Shintsu

Yeah, I hate the SUV craze. I actually for kicks was looking and saw a same year Yukon Denali XL with around 97k miles for $10k. They're cushy riding, but the quality is not even close to Lexus...it's typical early 2000's GM quality. Durable but a bit chintzy.

I actually tracked down a brochure for the 2009 LS460 (Link here: http://www.lexus.com/documents/broch...S-Brochure.pdf) I see that yes the air ride is optional...crud. How bad is that air ride really? Also that looks to be the Alabaster leather, so it's a very light color almost whiteish. The Cashmere is the color I wouldn't really want. Also I can't believe the 460 AWD is 4,730 lbs...that's very close to the weight of my truck! I do worry how the resale value will hold up over time seeing as sedans are less and less popular. People gotta haul around all that air with them because suddenly sedans are just unusable...hmph.

Aron9000

I'd avoid air ride on either car, because at that age you are just asking for a failure, and the fix isn't cheap. You can replace those air ride components on each corner when they fail or convert the whole car to steel springs/conventional shocks all at once for a bit more up front investment, but it would be way cheaper than replacing each corner of the air suspension when it fails over the long run.

Shintsu

Of all the LS460 AWDs within 150 miles of me, I only found one that did not have the air ride on it - a 2011 for $23k with 81k miles. It kind of ruins this idea since the price is that high. I'd probably end up selling my Z06 to not keep too much $$$ tied up, in which case an LS would be out of the running. I don't mind the RWD if it's cheap enough, but for the higher price it has to be AWD. RWD would certainly not be fun in the snow without winter tires (which I'm not buying "in case" we get snow, sometimes we never do). I know all about avoiding air ride on cars like Mercedes/BMW/etc. but thought Lexus wasn't so bad about that.

Aron9000

Dude if you are a bit budget restricted, if that LS430 makes the right sounds, drives "like a rock" looks awesome, has that service history, man that is what I'd go for. If you have a fun toy with that Corvette C5 Z06, man go for the softer, cushy car that is a bit less $$$$. I know that LS460 might have a few more tech features and might "look" a bit more 21st century, but **** that nonsense. There is an all new LS model coming out next year that is going to make any sort of premium you spent on that LS460 look like yesterday's news.

geko29

There are very few cars about which you could say the above with a straight face. The LS430 is one of those cars. It is arguably the best-built car Lexus has ever made. That would be my choice, hands down.

Other comments: why are you concerned about future depreciation on a 14 year old car with six figures on the clock? This car is more or less fully depreciated already. No matter how old or how many miles, this car will never be worth less than about $5k as long as it's well-kept and in good running condition.

As for snow tires: though I'm a huge proponent, I wouldn't buy them in Kentucky either. Put on a good set of all-seasons that can handle an occasional light snow. The Continental ExtremeContact DWS is a good performance AS that also offers a very soft ride, but there are other good options as well.

Johnhav430

I feel qualified to speak to the LS430 as I bought one used 2006 in 10/16 with 81k. It's about to hit 100k and has had zero problems since I bought it (that is not to say I took delivery and it had a bad driver door actuator which is common and $840 to fix at a dealer, and pulsating front brakes--dealer replaced both no charge with OE as it was a new car dealership, so be careful about identifying existing defects).

I would have to check my notes on the 460, I thought people on the 3rd gen had concluded it needed to be a '13 or newer to clear some hurdles, not sure anymore, wasn't my thing....

If a 430, I would go for a Custom Luxury aka CL. Because options add $0 to the price, and I would stick to 2006's with no accidents on the carfax (they still could have occurred, I saw one in person). And I am not sure this still works due to the hurricanes this year, but I'd get a FLA or TX car as well. Mine was from FLA and as such it avoided 8+ years of salt.

You can tell a custom luxury by the headlight washers. But imho you don't want an ultra luxury, which you can tell by the buttons for ride height, fancy controls in the rear armrest, and fridge in the trunk (wastes space imho). Custom Luxury gets you laminated side glass and sometimes aniline leather on the seats, dash, soft close doors (double when the actuators break unfortunately). Everyone says the 430's are 200k cars easy, potentially 300k. Also, your 430 has 17" rims, I would say most have 18's which are shod with 245's instead of 225's. I like to go with the larger rim if the tire is wider. With GM, for example, they put the same width often across 18-19-20, in which case I would go with the smaller rim. Good luck...

Toys4RJill

Go for the 09 460

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so you have a z06 and a '15 f150 and you want to sell the truck to possibly get an '04 ls because the truck 'only' gets 15mpg. is that right? makes absolutely no sense to me. an almost 14 year old car is going to have some issues, no matter how well cared for. the '09 ls460 sounds better, but still it's almost 9 years old and you don't seem to like it as much.

since you're in your 20s your insurance must be quite high or sky high. if i were you i'd sell both vehicles and get a recent or new luxury car.

Johnhav430

again, pretty sure '07 LS's had issues to avoid, and people who have done the research suggest '13 or newer. Based on that alone, and the price I saw, I would avoid an '09. We all want to buy a 2006 Audi A8 for $12k, which was $78k new, with 60k miles. Rather than reinvent the wheel, we listen to people who have bought the 2006 audi for $12k, and learn it's not a good deal based on their experience. I dunno which 4th gen LS' have an air suspension, but the UL 430's do, and they are $1k/corner just for the parts, who needs that coming out of the gate. I'm not so much into the well I'll just replace it with an ordinary suspension either--have seen this done on MBs which are hydraulic. Rather get the non from the get go.

mmarshall

Don't automatically assume that FL cars avoid salt. Remember, although salt is not used on the roads there, the state has a enormously long coastline, and the warm salt water water offshore, a (usual) level of high humidity in the air, heavy rainfall, and, of course, salt in the air near the beach....all are conducive to corrosion.

Shintsu

Well it's more than just the 15 MPG bit (I expected roughly 18 +/-). It's a crew cab, though I don't have the longest bed so it's not as long as it could potentially be - but it's very unwieldy. I have gotten better parking it, but it's still a bear and I often get it crooked as I pull into a parking space. Any time I go in really urban areas, it is especially not fun to park...at least I have backup sensors and a camera. I kind of went overboard since I initially set out to buy a $10k car to serve when I wasn't driving my Z06. It was a completely self imposed limit to start with, so I just let it climb until...well, I ended up with this expensive F150. "I'll totally haul stuff, and 4WD will be so helpful!" I have hauled maybe 2-3 things since I got it. And you can't use 4WD on pavement unless in a straight line if it's not raining or snowing, which leaves you with a light tail end vehicle that loves to fishtail with a lazy traction control system that doesn't even need to be defeated to squeal tires (found out several times on accident). Need the Lariat to allow for the Automatic 4WD and those were much more expensive and ironically enough most had less features than mine.

Plus it's still a truck, so while it might be way more luxurious than one might presume a truck could be (even as a "lowly" XLT) it doesn't have the kind of luxury or build of anything like a Lexus. I'm also really not the die-hard domestic car guy that owning these two vehicles would seem to imply...I have a car I have been trying to sell which is a 2003 mostly because I refused to get hosed on trade in but have still yet to sell it since it's apparently an undesirable configuration (at least to anyone but me). That car which has 156k miles still drives fine, so I don't generally follow that older cars always need so much replaced on them. I drove a '90s Buick to almost 170k miles and can only recall maybe 2-3 repairs over the 8 years I drove it outside of regular wear items being replaced. I think Japanese makes in general are much more dependable, so hence my skepticism for worrying much about "lots" of issues. Though true, I would prefer newer just on principle of safety - but not sure who else would provide a reliable executive V8 sedan that's affordable...

I last test drove an LS430 probably 2-3 years ago, so I kind of don't remember it that well. The 460 is still fairly fresh in my mind since it was a few weeks ago.