Am I expecting too much from Lexus?
11-30-17, 12:55 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
The important thing to realize is that this isn't the dealers fault. Taking a tough line with the dealer and making demands of them is just going to make them wash their hands of you, you need the dealer to WANT to help you.
Personally, if they will install a used part if you supply the part and ask you to sign a release from liability, I would do that.
Again, you can't ask them or expect them to cover the cost of this...the car is 10 years old.
Personally, if they will install a used part if you supply the part and ask you to sign a release from liability, I would do that.
Again, you can't ask them or expect them to cover the cost of this...the car is 10 years old.
11-30-17, 01:10 PM
#33
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But with only 41k miles! To the consumer, both the dealer and the corporate office are "Lexus". Right now I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer's corporate office - they are contacting corporate to try to get some resolution (eg another vehicle). Additionally, it sounds like Lexus is going to start remaking the part - just don't know the timetable. Since this is a safety issue and others with the same models are experiencing it, I'm guessing there will be a recall. We'll see....
11-30-17, 05:25 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
But with only 41k miles! To the consumer, both the dealer and the corporate office are "Lexus". Right now I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer's corporate office - they are contacting corporate to try to get some resolution (eg another vehicle). Additionally, it sounds like Lexus is going to start remaking the part - just don't know the timetable. Since this is a safety issue and others with the same models are experiencing it, I'm guessing there will be a recall. We'll see....
And 41K over ten years? The car's not driven much and sits more than it drives. There is no way to know where this Lexus has been for 41K. But you do have to read the fine print on the car's warranty. The standard Lexus warranty is 6 years/70K miles and I believe that may include the airbag system, but I'm not certain. The disclaimer on this warranty is pretty much like other standard car industry warranties: "whichever occurs first". The safety issue is that your occupant protection system on that side of the car has failed. Would you be just as assertive if this car had 200K on it and been driven through salty rusty back roads? IMHO your issue is that a low miler Lexus ES has had a fault that the dealer has no control over. If they're willing to talk to you about a similar vehicle, that means you have a resolution at hand at some point.
11-30-17, 05:42 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
it sounds to me like the weight sensor in the passenger seat.. back in 2003 I think, legislation was passed that required car manufacturers to put a sensor in the passenger seat that would know if a child or child seat was present and disable the airbag on that side.
I was working at Chrysler at the time, and they had a weight sensor in the passenger seat, and it basically determined if the weight exceed 99lbs evenly distributed across the seat, it was supposed to be able to tell if it was a full grown adult under 100 lbs, vs. a child or a child seat. for the most part it worked, however if you set anything heavy on the seat that was an awkward weight or uneven, it would bop the sensor out of calibration. For example, I had a customer that transported a wheel/rim on the passenger seat and it whacked the sensor out of calibration.
The calibration procedure took about 45 minutes, it was an event of placing several different weight modules on the seat and running the calibration program from the StarScan (dealer tech tool).
you might ask the tech if the Lexus has some type of weight calibration system similar to that, Mercedes and Chrysler (was Daimler-Chrysler at the time) used the same system from 2004-2007, in 2008 the system was changed, so instead of a sensor inside the seat cushion, there were sensors placed at the 4 corners of the seat frame, this change was due to the fact the internal sensor could not be replaced, the whole seat bottom had to me. Seems that Lexus has the same thing in 2007..
I was working at Chrysler at the time, and they had a weight sensor in the passenger seat, and it basically determined if the weight exceed 99lbs evenly distributed across the seat, it was supposed to be able to tell if it was a full grown adult under 100 lbs, vs. a child or a child seat. for the most part it worked, however if you set anything heavy on the seat that was an awkward weight or uneven, it would bop the sensor out of calibration. For example, I had a customer that transported a wheel/rim on the passenger seat and it whacked the sensor out of calibration.
The calibration procedure took about 45 minutes, it was an event of placing several different weight modules on the seat and running the calibration program from the StarScan (dealer tech tool).
you might ask the tech if the Lexus has some type of weight calibration system similar to that, Mercedes and Chrysler (was Daimler-Chrysler at the time) used the same system from 2004-2007, in 2008 the system was changed, so instead of a sensor inside the seat cushion, there were sensors placed at the 4 corners of the seat frame, this change was due to the fact the internal sensor could not be replaced, the whole seat bottom had to me. Seems that Lexus has the same thing in 2007..
11-30-17, 06:09 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
^^^ Correct mjeds, but if you read the OP's verbatim service report from the tech, he already tried all that. What you're talking about is a zero weight calibration to reset the sensors. The problem isn't about the weight sensors, it's about an ABS occupant detection system that is seeing faulty data. You can replace the sensors/pad, But what are you going to do with the actual issue of corrupted data on the ABS brain that controls it all? They're a matched set and proprietary to Toyota/Lexus.
The ES has a coded seat pad to that vehicle. Used or new, you still have to rewrite the data to his vehicle and if you don't have the old data to rewrite to the new sensor pad/seat, what are you going to do? Only Lexus/Toyota has that code and as he says, they may resume making them or they may just get him a used ES. Unfortunately, it's not a plug and play solution.
The ES has a coded seat pad to that vehicle. Used or new, you still have to rewrite the data to his vehicle and if you don't have the old data to rewrite to the new sensor pad/seat, what are you going to do? Only Lexus/Toyota has that code and as he says, they may resume making them or they may just get him a used ES. Unfortunately, it's not a plug and play solution.
11-30-17, 06:26 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
^^^ Correct mjeds, but if you read the OP's verbatim service report from the tech, he already tried all that. What you're talking about is a zero weight calibration to reset the sensors. The problem isn't about the weight sensors, it's about an ABS occupant detection system that is seeing faulty data. You can replace the sensors/pad, But what are you going to do with the actual issue of corrupted data on the ABS brain that controls it all? They're a matched set and proprietary to Toyota/Lexus.
The ES has a coded seat pad to that vehicle. Used or new, you still have to rewrite the data to his vehicle and if you don't have the old data to rewrite to the new sensor pad/seat, what are you going to do? Only Lexus/Toyota has that code and as he says, they may resume making them or they may just get him a used ES. Unfortunately, it's not a plug and play solution.
The ES has a coded seat pad to that vehicle. Used or new, you still have to rewrite the data to his vehicle and if you don't have the old data to rewrite to the new sensor pad/seat, what are you going to do? Only Lexus/Toyota has that code and as he says, they may resume making them or they may just get him a used ES. Unfortunately, it's not a plug and play solution.
sounds like Lexus missed a step, because I can't see how a new unit can't be programmed into the vehicle without the old unit, by it's very nature the need to replace an old ECU would indicate the old ECU would not be usable to restore/copy data.. kind of follows the same idea that if the HDD on my computer dies I can't exactly copy that data to a new HDD, I need a back up to restore that data.
11-30-17, 06:41 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
But with only 41k miles! To the consumer, both the dealer and the corporate office are "Lexus". Right now I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer's corporate office - they are contacting corporate to try to get some resolution (eg another vehicle). Additionally, it sounds like Lexus is going to start remaking the part - just don't know the timetable. Since this is a safety issue and others with the same models are experiencing it, I'm guessing there will be a recall. We'll see....
And the mileage is meaningless. The warranty is 4 years, the car is 10-11 years old. It’s existed longer out of warranty than it did in warranty.
They owe you nothing, but that doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t help you. If you stay likable and reasonable, people like the guy you called today in MA will want to help you. Be unreasonable and demanding and they won’t.
11-30-17, 06:44 PM
#39
The dealer is not Lexus. They are an independently owned business and you need their help. They can absolutely tell you to take a hike if dealing with you becomes not profitable and too much hassle.
And the mileage is meaningless. The warranty is 4 years, the car is 10-11 years old. It’s existed longer out of warranty than it did in warranty.
They owe you nothing, but that doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t help you. If you stay likable and reasonable, people like the guy you called today in MA will want to help you. Be unreasonable and demanding and they won’t.
And the mileage is meaningless. The warranty is 4 years, the car is 10-11 years old. It’s existed longer out of warranty than it did in warranty.
They owe you nothing, but that doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t help you. If you stay likable and reasonable, people like the guy you called today in MA will want to help you. Be unreasonable and demanding and they won’t.
11-30-17, 06:56 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
... sounds like Lexus missed a step, because I can't see how a new unit can't be programmed into the vehicle without the old unit, by it's very nature the need to replace an old ECU would indicate the old ECU would not be usable to restore/copy data.. kind of follows the same idea that if the HDD on my computer dies I can't exactly copy that data to a new HDD, I need a back up to restore that data.
11-30-17, 07:30 PM
#41
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
If I only believed airbags helped people...
My 1993 Supra owners manual says quite clearly that the airbags MUST be replaced every 10 years. I really wonder how many people are driving around with older cars and airbags that may or may not do anything when they are needed.
As stated above, the car is 10 years old. There are NO special warranties (and sorry Mike, but even California never had a 10 year warranty of any kind for emissions or SRS) on the SRS after you've completed the initial warranty term. The best you might be able to do is use an extended warranty if you bought one at the time of purchase, but even those are typically limited to 7 years.
Truthfully - what is going to happen? The airbag will fail to deploy? Sweet Jesus, I would be overjoyed. If it deployed unnecessarily without any provocation, I would be really UNhappy.
My 1993 Supra owners manual says quite clearly that the airbags MUST be replaced every 10 years. I really wonder how many people are driving around with older cars and airbags that may or may not do anything when they are needed.
As stated above, the car is 10 years old. There are NO special warranties (and sorry Mike, but even California never had a 10 year warranty of any kind for emissions or SRS) on the SRS after you've completed the initial warranty term. The best you might be able to do is use an extended warranty if you bought one at the time of purchase, but even those are typically limited to 7 years.
Truthfully - what is going to happen? The airbag will fail to deploy? Sweet Jesus, I would be overjoyed. If it deployed unnecessarily without any provocation, I would be really UNhappy.
11-30-17, 07:33 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
It’s overwhelmingly clear that airbags have made cars safer.
11-30-17, 07:41 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
11-30-17, 07:55 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
yes that's low miles for sure, but if a car was 10 years old and had 4k miles i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. car parts still go bad when a car just sits. also, hendricks is a reputable dealer as far as i have heard and trying to shame them into action most likely won't work and will ensure you never have a good relationship with them.
given toyota/lexus glacial pace with things in general, i wouldn't expect to see a part in less than 6 months.
Additionally, it sounds like Lexus is going to start remaking the part - just don't know the timetable.
11-30-17, 08:05 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
