CT6, LC500, Camry, Lacrosse, Continental...are these cars selling?
11-16-17, 03:48 AM
#76
Driver
In my circles (where everyone seems to drive a car in the $100k-$300k range) nobody talks about 0-60 times. It's either because nobody cares, or at this point in life it is seen as immature, selfish, and foolish to stoplight race or talk about how fast you can drive on the highway. 100% of the time, the discussion is, "How much hp does that thing have?" For the more sophisticated, the discussion might also include a comment about tq.
...
We pay attention to all of those things here as enthusiasts, but many, many people do not.
...
We pay attention to all of those things here as enthusiasts, but many, many people do not.
Peace.
11-16-17, 05:53 AM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
Rhambler, Thorne.......
It's true that most of us, here on Car Chat, including myself, are auto enthusiasts...otherwise, we would not spend the time and effort to post regularly like we do. But there is often a difference between being a car enthusiast and being a speed, drifting, or canyon-carving enthusiast. The auto press has tended to emphasize speed and handling....but not everyone, even in the auto press, is glamorized with (or by) high-performance driving, and for some of us here on the forum, 0-60 times mean little else but how much reserve power a vehicle has in case of an emergency (such as a dangerous passing situation on a two-lane road) or having to quickly merge into fast-moving traffic at the last second. True, I myself tend to prefer V6 engines (and even sometimes V8s) over in-line 4's, but that is mostly because of the refinement, not necessarily speed. If it is just speed that one wants, one can often get it out of a small four simply by giving it a turbo and/or or a more responsive transmission with shorter gears and final drive ratio.
It's true that most of us, here on Car Chat, including myself, are auto enthusiasts...otherwise, we would not spend the time and effort to post regularly like we do. But there is often a difference between being a car enthusiast and being a speed, drifting, or canyon-carving enthusiast. The auto press has tended to emphasize speed and handling....but not everyone, even in the auto press, is glamorized with (or by) high-performance driving, and for some of us here on the forum, 0-60 times mean little else but how much reserve power a vehicle has in case of an emergency (such as a dangerous passing situation on a two-lane road) or having to quickly merge into fast-moving traffic at the last second. True, I myself tend to prefer V6 engines (and even sometimes V8s) over in-line 4's, but that is mostly because of the refinement, not necessarily speed. If it is just speed that one wants, one can often get it out of a small four simply by giving it a turbo and/or or a more responsive transmission with shorter gears and final drive ratio.
11-16-17, 05:56 AM
#78
Lexus Fanatic
In my circles (where everyone seems to drive a car in the $100k-$300k range) nobody talks about 0-60 times. It's either because nobody cares, or at this point in life it is seen as immature, selfish, and foolish to stoplight race or talk about how fast you can drive on the highway. 100% of the time, the discussion is, "How much hp does that thing have?" For the more sophisticated, the discussion might also include a comment about tq.
I personally don't believe the slow-sellingness of the LC is due to 0-60 times from some magazine. We pay attention to all of those things here as enthusiasts, but many, many people do not. Lexus stating a 4.6s 0-60 time is adequate enough, and will never be verified by 90% of owners. No, I personally think the slow-selling is due to the same element that gave me pause prior to pulling the trigger on my LC: "Wow, $100k for a Lexus?" I had never heard of such a thing. And this is coming from a guy who owns cars worth north of $200-$250k. No offense meant to the fans, but "6 Figure Lexus" was difficult to wrap my head around. Similar for other friends and acquaintances.
Part of me believes that a reason they aren't selling according to forecast is because the public consciousness (at least in LA, maybe other places too but I don't live in other places) hasn't yet wrapped its head around the concept of a 6 Figure Lexus. I purchased this car on a whim after following it for a while. If it was my daily driver or my only car or my "single other car", I would have eliminated it based upon other requirements.
My $.02
I personally don't believe the slow-sellingness of the LC is due to 0-60 times from some magazine. We pay attention to all of those things here as enthusiasts, but many, many people do not. Lexus stating a 4.6s 0-60 time is adequate enough, and will never be verified by 90% of owners. No, I personally think the slow-selling is due to the same element that gave me pause prior to pulling the trigger on my LC: "Wow, $100k for a Lexus?" I had never heard of such a thing. And this is coming from a guy who owns cars worth north of $200-$250k. No offense meant to the fans, but "6 Figure Lexus" was difficult to wrap my head around. Similar for other friends and acquaintances.
Part of me believes that a reason they aren't selling according to forecast is because the public consciousness (at least in LA, maybe other places too but I don't live in other places) hasn't yet wrapped its head around the concept of a 6 Figure Lexus. I purchased this car on a whim after following it for a while. If it was my daily driver or my only car or my "single other car", I would have eliminated it based upon other requirements.
My $.02
Perception is funny, I would agree a $100k Lexus is pushing it, but people think nothing of $87k for a 4 cyl. Boxster S....
edit: on the car enthusiast thing, I think the enthusiast, as I have seen on this forum, sees a pic of the C430 AMG, and notices floating calipers on the rear, to indicate it's not an AMG. Imgaine how many are simply fooled when you say M Sport or C430 AMG.
11-16-17, 10:13 AM
#80
On the LC, the pricing (as others have said) is way too high. The car seems to be slotted in a narrow niche. I was pretty disappointed with the RC as it sort of "took up space" in their lineup that a more reasonably priced LC would have filled admirably with some alternations. It is what is and buyers will be getting a nice touring coupe but there are just too many alternatives in both the new and used markets for the price.
11-16-17, 10:34 AM
#81
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Thorne, welcome and thank you for your perspective. i like the description of your location "Hell-A" 
the LC is a great car but definitely unique. it might appeal to someone looking at an SL or 650i or something, people looking for something comfy but stil pretty fast even if there's not a load of room. the LC has them beat on looks for sure. but it's a niche vehicle within a niche, so sales aren't going to be huge.
different kind of car, but compared to the NSX, an LC is a bargain.
the LC is a great car but definitely unique. it might appeal to someone looking at an SL or 650i or something, people looking for something comfy but stil pretty fast even if there's not a load of room. the LC has them beat on looks for sure. but it's a niche vehicle within a niche, so sales aren't going to be huge.
different kind of car, but compared to the NSX, an LC is a bargain.
11-16-17, 12:39 PM
#83
Lexus Champion
the LC is a great car but definitely unique. it might appeal to someone looking at an SL or 650i or something, people looking for something comfy but stil pretty fast even if there's not a load of room. the LC has them beat on looks for sure. but it's a niche vehicle within a niche, so sales aren't going to be huge.
different kind of car, but compared to the NSX, an LC is a bargain.
different kind of car, but compared to the NSX, an LC is a bargain.
As I understand it, the LC is a large, grand touring coupe, in competition with the BMW 6-Series, the S-Class coupe (SL) and Aston Martin models. GT coupes are definitely niche vehicles.
If Lexus wants to be serious about selling such a car, it has to be competitive, and competitive must include price. If Lexus prices it too low, prospective buyers for such a niche vehicle will not look at it as a serious competitor to the Europeans; it would be laughed at, just like prospective buyers laughed at VW for trying to sell the Phaeton as a premium car.
11-16-17, 01:02 PM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
I cannot believe the dislike for the LC... and the lengths that some people go to in an effort to try to prove that it is a bad car.
As I understand it, the LC is a large, grand touring coupe, in competition with the BMW 6-Series, the S-Class coupe (SL) and Aston Martin models. GT coupes are definitely niche vehicles.
If Lexus wants to be serious about selling such a car, it has to be competitive, and competitive must include price. If Lexus prices it too low, prospective buyers for such a niche vehicle will not look at it as a serious competitor to the Europeans; it would be laughed at, just like prospective buyers laughed at VW for trying to sell the Phaeton as a premium car.
As I understand it, the LC is a large, grand touring coupe, in competition with the BMW 6-Series, the S-Class coupe (SL) and Aston Martin models. GT coupes are definitely niche vehicles.
If Lexus wants to be serious about selling such a car, it has to be competitive, and competitive must include price. If Lexus prices it too low, prospective buyers for such a niche vehicle will not look at it as a serious competitor to the Europeans; it would be laughed at, just like prospective buyers laughed at VW for trying to sell the Phaeton as a premium car.
People don't laugh at a great car that is not over priced or is somewhat of a bargain. People did not laugh at the LS400 when it was priced at 35K where a S class was roughly double the price, some manufacturers accused Lexus of dumping it on the market but I don't think buyers laughed at it and it put a hurt on Europeans, same with the Acura Legend at the time. People did not laugh at the NSX when it was priced significantly lower then a Ferrari 348 while outperforming it and actually being reliable and easy to own. Buyers laughed at the Phaeton because it was still priced way too high for a VW not to mention it was very heavy and one of the most unreliable modern cars in decades. You can't be competitive when you over price cars for your brand, they don't sell, and then you have to offer a bunch of money off to try to sell them, same thing happened with the RC-F and GS-F.
11-16-17, 01:09 PM
#85
Lexus Fanatic
The i3 I rode in had a sticker of $53 or $56, now that was a joke. the fuel door didn't even close properly and the vehicle was new. And it looked like the dash was made of recycled cardboard, very bizzare. My buddy emailed me $56k buys you a used Cayman, not even an S. Crazy. I am finding more and more that time marches on without me. The last time I sat in a 997 Turbo S, brand new, it was 161k. I remember saying lose the automatic, which you could not with the S, at the time. I think 161k might get you a Carrera S today. As long as it's not loaded.
11-16-17, 02:49 PM
#86
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Sulu, hope you're not implying i am showing dislike... i think the LC is pretty great.
11-16-17, 04:38 PM
#87
Lexus Test Driver
I do believe the lack of speed and quickness HAS or WILL affect LC sales.
Come on, it's a two-door coupe that costs near $100k (i.e., impractical with a high degree of vanity). Who else would buy this type of car if they weren't some type of "enthusiast" to one extent or another. Thorne, you yourself said it should be quicker. I agree and ultimately I think that missing attribute WILL weigh in on people's decision to buy that car versus others at that range and class.
Who wants to spend $100k on a slow two-door coupe? Lexus knows this, that's why they throw out these numbers that are borderline BS. Otherwise, why not be more realistic if it didn't matter?
Come on, it's a two-door coupe that costs near $100k (i.e., impractical with a high degree of vanity). Who else would buy this type of car if they weren't some type of "enthusiast" to one extent or another. Thorne, you yourself said it should be quicker. I agree and ultimately I think that missing attribute WILL weigh in on people's decision to buy that car versus others at that range and class.
Who wants to spend $100k on a slow two-door coupe? Lexus knows this, that's why they throw out these numbers that are borderline BS. Otherwise, why not be more realistic if it didn't matter?
11-16-17, 05:26 PM
#88
Driver
Maybe there is an ECU update (Ok now I'm speaking out of my depth here) that Lexus (or a 3rd party tuning shop) would consider doing in the near future for the LC. But I'm not sure if the current performance is due to shift points or gearing or weight or all 3, so perhaps an ECU flash on its own wouldn't work. At this point I'm just making stuff up. Maybe I'll post this in the LC forum.
Good discussion.
Good discussion.
11-16-17, 05:37 PM
#89
Lexus Champion
It's interesting that Lexus chose to price the LC at $100K. Did this number just pop up out of nowhere or was there some sort of marketing psychology behind this six figure idea. It's a big gamble: will people pay this kind of money for a Lexus, that's apparently what the big experiment is. We know people will pay obscene amounts of money for the Germans and the other esoteric cars from Aston, Bentley etc.
If the LC was priced at say, $75K, would its performance be acceptable to people or would the buyers simply cruise right on by to the MB or BMW dealership and pay the extra $25K or whatever the number is, because they don't think there's prestige in a five figure car vs a six figure car, or they're worried about getting beat by one of those cars if they buy the LC (kinda like a loss of face on the street)?
If you're just a Ricky Racer going from stoplight to stoplight with your big winged whatever, then the LC is probably not for you. If you want inexpensive street performance without the badge, you could even just get a retro-muscle car or a Corvette. But, yeah Lexus will have to do something if sales don't come up to the 400/month they were predicting.
If the LC was priced at say, $75K, would its performance be acceptable to people or would the buyers simply cruise right on by to the MB or BMW dealership and pay the extra $25K or whatever the number is, because they don't think there's prestige in a five figure car vs a six figure car, or they're worried about getting beat by one of those cars if they buy the LC (kinda like a loss of face on the street)?
If you're just a Ricky Racer going from stoplight to stoplight with your big winged whatever, then the LC is probably not for you. If you want inexpensive street performance without the badge, you could even just get a retro-muscle car or a Corvette. But, yeah Lexus will have to do something if sales don't come up to the 400/month they were predicting.