mmarshall

I explained, earlier, in another thread, Jill......maybe you didn't see it. The Lacrosse uses an all-electronic, back-lit analog speedometer, voltmeter gauge, and oil-temperature gauge (in analog-format), which goes completely blank when the ignition is shut off. The rest of the gauges....fuel-level, tach, and coolant-temperature, use traditional fixed analog-needles, but have electronic analog-style backlit gauges which also go blank when the ignition is off. In addition, there are also traditional red warning lights for oil, coolant-temperature, and voltage (certainly no cost-cutting there)...but they are erratic in the way they are programmed to come on for the couple-second test when the ignition is first turned on. If desired, an digital speed-readout can be programmed in the center of the speedometer (I can do without that readout myself, and usually just leave the tire-pressures displayed in that center-space instead, so I can keep an eye on them if one starts dropping). The oil-temperature and voltmeter gauges, of course, are quite unusual in a run-of-the-mill sedan that is not sport-oriented...I myself was surprised to see them when I first test-drove a new Lacrosse.

Toys4RJill

Gauges in the new LaCrosse look pretty classy.

Something tells me on the center part is actually digital. The rest of the gauges look like very nice back lit.

Aron9000

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with GM and Cadillac. Why does your gauge cluster on your $35,000 Buick look so much nicer than something on a $70,000 Caddy ATS-V(or $100,000 Escalade)





Also don't get me started about the ancillary gauges reading the wrong way. Ever since the beginning of time, a gauge should read clockwise, low indicator on the left of the dial, normal operating temp/range between 10 and 2 o'clock in the middle of the dial, anything hot/abnormal past 2'clock or so for a round gauge. This is the easy way to read a gauge, look at semi-trucks, all of the many gauges are set up this way to read at a glance. There are 15-20 little round gauges in front of you, you see one pegged to the right(or pegged to the left, like your PSI in the brake system), you know holy crap, something is wrong.

mmarshall

Two reasons. First, the 70K ATS-V is nothing but a (pardon the cliche) hot-rod version of a base 35K ATS sedan or 38K coupe, which, itself, sells in the Lacrosse's typical price range. Second, Cadillac, for the most part, unlike Buick, is not designing something that is going to have to appeal not only to Americans, but to a billion Chinese as well. Roughly 80% of Buick worldwide sales (probably an even higher percentage for its sedans, which are lagging badly in the U.S.) come from the Chinese, where they all but worship the marque.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

mmarshall has patiently tried to explain a couple of times and it took me a couple of reads to understand it too, but maybe a picture will help.

mmarshall

Thanks, bit. Your diagram is basically correct. It took me a little while to fully-understand the system myself, even after a couple of test-drives and actual ownership. On this car, the Buick designers came up with a very unusual system of mixing mechanical, digital, analog, electronic, and electro-luminescsnt. The whole screen, though (including the numbers), actually goes blank with the ignition off...except for the mechanical tach needle on the far left and the fuel/temp needles on the far right. The center needles, along with the digits, are electronic.

And it is not without its quirks. The three red warning lights for temp/oil/voltage (just above the "110" on the speedometer, share space with the yellow T/C and service-parking-brake warning light. When the ignition first comes on, the two yellow lights come on reliability for the ignition-tests, and stay on a few seconds like they are supposed to. Then, after they cycle-off, the red lights sometime come on, sometimes not, and sometimes just one or two at a time for the test. That part is strange....it's the only thing on this entire car that really leaves me scratching my head. Fortunately, the car comes standard with volt-meter, coolant-temp, and oil-temperature gauges, so the warning lights are less-important.

I can't find a Google-shot of the Lacrosse blank gauges, with just the outer needles showing. I'll (maybe) have to try a cell-phone shot and post it.

Here's what it looks like, BTW, with the programmable digital speed readout on display:

tex2670

In fairness, you can't tell from this pic that any of the IP is digital.

Better.

tex2670

It's no excuse. Digital or analog, the ATS's IP is embarrassing when compared to its competition (even cars that aren't its competition, like, say, a Corolla).

mmarshall

That's why I explained it, line by line. Bitkahuna has better computer skills than I do, and was able to graphically enclose that area.

mmarshall

Oh, I agree. Even though I listed two reasons explaining it, I wasn't necessarily trying to imply otherwise....especially compared to the gauges you'll find in, say, an Audi RS4 or BMW M3. And I, for one, believe that most of today's Cadillac sedans, whether V-class or run-of-the-mill, are overpriced for what you get.

But, on the other hand, it also shows where Cadillac chose to spend its money in the ATS-V's development budget. Interior ergonomics, in general, were somewhat neglected in favor of a strong, nicely-done twin-turbo V6, the option of a true 3-pedal manual transmission (something that is increasingly lacking in even some of today's performance cars), and, of course, an ultra-tight chassis that, if one can put up with the stiff ride, gives some of the world's best handling in a sedan of that size.

SW17LS

The layout and design of the gauges in the Lacrosse is very similar to what’s in the 14-17 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

mmarshall

Did all of the JGCs of that generation have the same layout? Sometimes, especially with Jeeps, gauge layout and content can vary from lower to higher-trim models.

SW17LS

Yes, all the same.

Lil4X

All-digital displays were once sought as some kind of zoomy styling exercise, but in practice they have proven to be both impractical and even dangerous. An all-digital dash is always tempting because we are capturing highly precise digital data from the ECU, so why not display it as a set of numbers? While it's meaningful to the computer, that data doesn't translate well to human intelligence. We don't do well with rapidly changing digits without some reference.

I worked with a client developing a digital panel for all of the driller's instruments on a drilling rig. In theory it was brilliant, but in practice it could have been dangerous. For over eighty years, the guy on the throttles, clutch and brake handle had a few instruments that were supposed to keep him somewhere between profit and disaster. He could see a big round dial with the suspended load indicated with an outer dial that was manually adjusted to show the actual weight-on-bit as he drilled ahead. Other crucial needles-and-numbers gauges displayed pump pressure, pit volume (gain or loss), and engine temperatures (no need for a tach, the continuous roaring in your ears assured you that thousands of diesel horsepower were fully operational).

As we came into the digital age in the '80's, and drilling an oil or gas well became far more complex (and massively expensive), it was evident that we needed to know more about what was happening four or five miles down that hole you were making in the ground. EVERYbody wanted a digital display. NUMBERS were big, not just steam gauges, you wanted precision. But no one thought about what we were actually doing with the numbers, and what they meant.

It seems that faced with a set of rapidly changing numbers, it takes as much as two or three seconds to determine if the numbers are actually increasing or decreasing, particularly if they are moving rather quickly and the user is fatigued. We eventually had to provide digital bar graphs alongside each readout to help communicate the trend of the instrument. Eventually, we had to color the background to provide a red warning highlight to anything running out of spec. Well, that was fine at night, but in glaring sun, it appeared too faint. We eventually went back to a digital representation of a conventional dial gauge (which is about where we are now on automotive dashboards). Humans easily interpret dials, known as "steam gauges" in the trade. We can see relative position, read it, and interpret any trend almost instantly. Designers of military aircraft panels learned years ago that "up" was the proper location for the optimal reading so that when all needles were pointed skyward, all was well. Without a reference point, raw numbers are almost meaningless.

This is an important consideration, to keep your scan going. You don't want to be distracted from what's going on the other side of the windshield any more than necessary. "OK, oil pressure is 32, is that good or bad, and why? . . . wait, was that a decimal in there?" Nope, WAY too long. If a set of numbers is flickering by fast, it's difficult to know what they mean. Pretty soon something is coming up that hole and you're not going to like it when it arrives on the surface and destroys everything in sight, you included. Mother Nature's like that. Similarly, if a bunch of flickering numbers on your dashboard requires interpretation, and whatever your response, it's going to be about 5 seconds too late . . . professional racing drivers learned that when you're covering about one football field per second, after 5 seconds, you're dealing with ancient history.

Monster Cup teams in NASCAR learned very quickly that pure numbers are almost useless - in a rapidly changing situation. That's why most Cup cars have a digital panel that mimics a set of steam gauges while providing precise numbers in the center of the instrument. Further, they learned to make the background of each individual instrument flash red the moment something goes out of spec. In a cockpit where high stress is the norm, noise, vibration, and having your brain jolted for 500 miles is a given, getting the driver's attention is critical before something irreparable, if not life-threatening occurs. The problem is now TMI. The driver's being shown so much data he can go into input overload. The answer, at least in F1 and GP racing has been to let a panel of engineers in the pits remotely monitor all those factors and tell the driver what's happening and how he needs to respond to all of those serious, but not-immediately-critical inputs. NASCAR has been adopting this approach this year, and it seems to be working.

Now your street car probably doesn't have the need for so much data display, and certainly you don't have the control at your fingertips to do much about it, setting weight jacking, brake bias, and switching on and off brake cooling fans. But there is information you do need: Speed, engine performance (tach for MT's shifting, oil pressure, engine temperature, battery charging, fuel remaining, maybe your tire pressures). A growing number of "outlier" technologies like GPS, entertainment system, cabin temperature and ventilation, that are really nice to have, may not be absolutely mission-critical as far as getting you down the road in one piece.

We know how to do it right, now all that remains is to make it look good.

mmarshall

Excellent post, Bob. You basically explained what I tried to, earlier......only did a better job of it.