Toys4RJill

Which is nice. But Chevrolet is offering 10% below MSRP on all in stock Malibu's. Like I said, GM has the most to lose with the new Camry and Accord.

JDR76

Just had my first new Accord sighting. A white touring model in my work parking lot. It looks smaller in real life than in the pictures, but I did not warm up to it at all. The front still doesn't look right to me.

UDel

Most of the competition has not caught up in all areas, the Camry and Accord especially are still pretty much the best all around family sedans which is why they sell the most and have the highest resale value, and this new Accord looks to be a improvement over the current one in many areas. I still do not know if I like it though, will have to see one in person, the current 6 cylinder Accord can pass and compete as a luxury car in many ways and is very tough to top.

rogers2

I have a Honda dealership down the street from my house. The accord looks very upscale.... Toyota should fired the person who approve the front end on the camry.
When people say camry everyone thinks smooth and quite so why is Toyota trying to make the car sporty... imo it looks horrible.

JDR76

It's all very subjective. I think the new Camry is the best looking one in years, while the new Accord looked to me like a serious downgrade versus the previous model which I quite liked.

mmarshall

The new Accord's front end looks like it was in a body shop for work, and they forgot to put half of the parts back on LOL.

mmarshall

Part of the problem with both the Accord and Camry is that, at least in the American market, neither one offers an AWD option. That, alone, sends a fair number of buyers to Subaru shops for the Legacy, and, to a lesser extent, to the Ford shops for an AWD Fusion. The traditional counter-argument to this, of course, is that AWD sedans are redundant with the SUV market. But that shows you one reason WHY the SUV market has grown so much....the dearth of low and moderate-priced AWD sedans has encouraged it. You can't sell what you don't offer.

Sulu

There is another possible perspective on the AWD issue...

The Accord and Camry likely do not offer AWD because the demand for the feature is terribly low. Honda and Toyota are usually very good at determining the demand for various automotive features and if they do not offer some feature, it is because very few prospective buyers are asking for it.

Ford may offer AWD on the Fusion as a way to differentiate itself from the Accord and Camry. Knowing that the Fusion will not compete head-on with the Accord and Camry, Ford has to offer some differentiating feature to try to attract away a few buyers from Honda and Toyota.

Mike, do you know why many conquest buyers switched to the Subaru Legacy because AWD is not offered on the Accord and Camry, or are you merely speculating?

I highly doubt that the lack of AWD mid-size sedans is the reason for the popularity of crossover utility vehicles right now. If that was the case, automakers would not offer FWD crossover vehicles.

From here in the Great White North, I do NOT see many AWD Fusions nor Legacy sedans (in fact, I cannot recall ever seeing an AWD Fusion); I do see a fair number of Subaru Outback (crossover) models. I also see more FWD crossover models far outnumbering AWD crossovers. If AWD was such a great feature in the snow, I would expect to see most (if not all) crossover utility vehicles with AWD rather than FWD here in Canada.

Toys4RJill

I have lived in the snow area of Toronto for 30 years and uppper New York for my whole life. AWD in Camry or Accord is going to be very low demand, and at that point most people very likely will get into a RAV4 or CRV. Toyota does mid level trims very well. LE or LE plus is the bread and butter. They don't sell many high spec Camrys. I assume the same is for Accord.

Cant really speak of Fusion but I can say I never knew they even offered AWD let alone have I seen one with it.

MattyG

^^^ Then that means you guys are in a postal code where you have buyers who don't feel the need for AWD. Here in AB and the BC interior I can assure you I see AWD Fusions a lot of the time. Even see AWD Chryco 300's which come with the six cylinder drive train. I was just behind a late model Legacy Outback 3.5R. And the majority of the car based SUV's here are AWD as stated on their rear panels. So you can't necessarily go by Toronto and surrounding burbs.

Even the police departments which had to convert from Crown Vics to pickup trucks use AWD Taurus models for the police sedans here.

Toys4RJill

I don't think I said that buyers don't want AWD. It's that people won't pay the premium for a Camry or Accord. They will pay for AWD in a RAV4. I don't think many 2WD are sold on my area.

mmarshall

It's low among sedans for several reasons, but generally because people are going out to buy SUVs instead. The lure of the added ground-clearance and boxy rear ends for cargo-space obviously sells a lot of folks.


I'll generally, but not totally, agree with that. But there are notable exceptions. Honda had a smash hit with the 2-seat CRX, and then mindlessly dropped it in the early 90s for the Del-Sol, which not only never had the same appeal but was (unusual for a Honda) also afflicted with body-structure weaknesses, as Honda had had little experience with that type of semi-convertible. Lexus (a Toyota division) dropped the beautiful and successful 1Gen SC coupe series for the awkward-looking Audi-TT-clone 2Gen with its trick folding roof and package-shelf rear seat, which, despite a lovely interior, managed to find few true converts.

Yes....and notice that Ford offers AWD Fusions in addition to the AWD Escapes, Explorers, Flexes, and Edges that they sell out of the very same showrooms. Using your own comparisons above, we have to assume that Ford is not losing money on those AWD Fusions.

Subaru itself, in the U.S., with its standard (except for the BR-Z) AWD has been a cult brand for several decades now, with some intensely loyal buyers....especially in the country's Snow Belts. It's hard to measure the actual switch-rate (where applicable) in firm numbers (I don't think anyone as actually done it). But if one looks back at history, Subaru began to really get popular in this country around the time that Toyota dropped the AWD Camry All-Trac, back in the 1990s. Toyota also sold an AWD Corolla wagon (I'm sure you will remember it), which, when dropped, also added to Subaru's popularity.

Now, however, having said that, I'll grant you that the Legacy sedan, even with AWD, has, in the U.S. at least, never had the immense popularity that its own wagon stablemate Outback had. I myself owned an Outback for 6 years.


Ah, but they do.....plenty of them. They are usually the base versions of higher-trim AWD versions.

On that, I'll take you at your word....like me, you obviously know what you see and don't see on the roads each day. I do see them here in the D.C. area, despite the fact that, most winters, we don't get as much snow as you guys do where you live. But, then, the D.C area is unique...because of its enormous affluence, the way it is laid out, and relative lack of mass-transit options, virtually anything on four wheels, no matter how it is equipped, sells here....though, strangely, not the new Continental LOL.

mjeds

I agree, not a fan of the screen stuck up in the middle of the dash a-la-MBZ CLS either.

UDel

I don't think there is big demand for awd with mid size sedans just like I don't think there is big demand for awd for economy cars. With a good set of all season tires fwd mid size sedans do pretty well in the snow especially with modern traction control systems. With snow tires they can handle snow driving with ease, a rwd with snow tires normally will be better in the snow then a awd with all seasons. I don't think there are too many places in the US where AWD is a must especially when you consider decades ago just about everything was RWD, no trac control and AWD was rare if not non existent in just about every automobile. The Camry and Accord have no problem selling consistently in huge numbers without AWD, the ES does not even have AWD and it sells infinitely better then the GS which offers awd.

mmarshall

I don't really disagree with most of what you are saying, but the main reason why AWD sedans are currently out of favor is because of SUVs. People are finding that they want the ground-clearance, over-the-top visibility, and added cargo space that SUVs offer.