Toys4RJill

Never said the Escalade sucks. It's probably the best full size luxury SUV out there. My issue is with the data from CR. They need to explain how they come across their strange discrepancies of some GM cars that are good yet some are poor for their reliability rankings. My neighbour across from us is on their third model. They have kept the previous two in their family and handed them down to their teenage kids.

LeX2K

I know someone that loved their Chevy Vega.

mmarshall

Consumer Reports doesn't seem to get into this part of it, but one of the widespread theories in the auto world for Buick's good showing in the reliability department is that most of them are driven quite conservatively, rarely if ever abused, are usually well-cared for and serviced, and that their major components don't get the stress that many other vehicles do. (Translation, in Plain English: Grandpa and Grandma drive them to church on Sunday, to Bingo during the week, to the shopping center, and avoid Jack-Rabbit starts). Cadillac, on the other hand, seems to have lost a number of their traditional sedan buyers, who were conservative drivers and relatively aged like those at Buick...many have either died off or moved on to other brands (Lincoln, Lexus, Mercedes, etc...), and those looking at today's relatively sport-oriented CTS and ATS are a substantially different driver-group (significantly younger) than the former DeVille/DTS core. Also, some of the older, traditional buyers who HAVE stayed with Cadillac are clearly having trouble with the quirky CUE system...which gets back to what I said, in an earlier post, about some people complaining about complex or hard-to-use features that aren't necessarily malfunctioning.

(CR, BTW, does mention the CUE system as a significant factor in the brand's relatively poor showing).

mmarshall

In spite of the Vega's problems, the limited-production Cosworth version was generally well-liked by its owners. But the run-of-the-mill model, with its self-destructing aluminum four-banger, Swiss-Cheese body rust, sardine-can interior space-efficiency, and fall-off trim pieces that left a trail behind the car did little to endear itself to owners.

Fizzboy7

The answer to that question is quite simple, yet complicated. We see strange ratings like your example above because two totally different types of people with different types of behavior own these vehicles. For example, an XTS or CTS is far more likely to be owned and driven by a younger, hip, possibly under-the-influence, urbanite, who is going to strain and abuse the car more. Compare that to a larger Buick sedan or SUV, which is far more likely to be owned by an older, educated, and refined person. That person is much more likely to be easy on the car, and/or even not hear or sense things that may be failing with it.

I've said for years, CR needs to study the demographic of their subjects in order to truly gain a clear idea of what's going on. Another fine example of this was the poor ratings Scion always got. These were nearly all owned and driven by teens and college students, who abused the hell out of them. Of course they will have lower ratings, which made no sense at the time because they were basically based on reliable Toyotas. It's the driver.

*Edit* Just read the full thread and see Mike said more or less the same thing! Wise minds think alike!

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I’d wager the one word to best describe the discrepancy between Buick and Cadillac is CUE

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Yup, just get all the data out there...

Some examples, for each model 'rated'...
# surveys
avg age of owner
avg household size (people)
# miles driven on avg per month or year
...

things like this would allow for MUCH better comparisons and credibility

would it expose some weaknesses? sure, but let the consumer evaluate it.
if there's only 2 surveys for that maserati, might want to take that into account.

Toys4RJill

Agreed. It would give them instant credibility. I think if they released their review same day along with everyone else, it would go a long way.

LexBob2

Would any of this really change perceptions either pro or con? I doubt it.

Toys4RJill

I believe so. There is a credibility factor for me if CR is not releasing their reviews when everyone else is doing it. I really would like to see an honest opinion of a car, ensuring a day and date release simply verifies this. (I do understand its not always possible to get a complete unbiased review, but at least the reviews will not be influenced from other reviews) As for the data, absolutely CR data should released and shared. My assumption is that CR is nowhere near scientific and scholars will pick it apart.

LexBob2

This is my point. It sounds like in this case your mind is made up.

Toys4RJill

I would give them more cred if they simply released the reviews on the same day and date as the embargoes. I am not exactly against the reliability data.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't really care about their reviews ("summary: it's not a toyota or honda so it must suck" ), but to see the survey data would be very useful if not shrouded in mystery like it is.

Toys4RJill

without knowing any of the data, we really have no idea. I dont think CUE is that bad.

Sulu

CR could only do that if their test engineers took part in the automaker-sponsored introduction-and-preview-drive parties.

I call them "parties" for a very specific reason: They are typically held in specially-chosen (even exotic) locations, in very well-controlled conditions (well-controlled by the automaker to put their new product in the best light), and these parties are completely paid for by the automaker (transportation to and from the location, hotel accommodation and meals). That is why some Canadian reviewers have gotten into the habit of adding a disclaimer -- along the lines of "this introduction and test drive was paid for by the automaker" -- as a word of warning to readers who may accuse the reviewer of being biased on behalf of the automaker.

Does CR take part in these highly-biased introduction parties or does it wait until it can actually go out and buy a new model in a retail channel (which is their policy) before driving a new model for the first time? A new model will not be available for retail purchase until some time after the initial (prototype) test drives, sometimes months if last-minute quality issues are found during initial mass assembly.

You have to understand how CR works, and it seems obvious that many people who complain about CR do not know how they work.