ArmyofOne

What say you? I kind of wish they would. A diesel ES/GS would be sweet. 50mpg and oodles of torque!

If they did, I would expect to see it either in the big SUV's first (LX, GX) or in diesel-electric hybrid form (think locomotive), where instead of an actual engine, the car itself is electric, with a diesel generator.

It really surprises me that they haven't. BMW has diesels. So does Mercedes. Why not the L?

Toys4RJill

Compared a LX570 and a LX450 (not the 96-76 Model). Why would you want to pay $95K for less power, a slower vehicle, costlier to maintain, and more expensive MSRP? Diesel is not a bad option. But a high performing gas mdoel is just so much more appealing to people.

ArmyofOne

-Diesel's are not slower. This is an archaic way of thinking.

-Diesel's have much more torque than gas engines at a much lower RPM. Torque is what matters in large vehicles, HP is besides the point.

-Diesel's typically last 2-3x longer than gasoline engines, because they are built to withstand extreme temperatures and pressures. CIG (Compressed Iron-Graphite) technology has made this far more commonplace. Diesel's can now be strong, but still be lighter than their predecessors.

-Higher cost to maintain? In some cases, yes. There are more service parts to replace, such as fuel filters every other oil change, etc. But, these are not terribly expensive parts ($20?) And if you spread maintenance costs over 200,000 miles, the diesel will almost always be cheaper.

-As far as appeal, you may be right., but why is it not even an option? Diesel is a far more efficient fuel than gasoline. And they do sell. Mercedes and BMW sell many each year.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Simply put, No.

Other luxury makes are pulling their diesels or many are under investigation and Stop-Sale. Lexus and the like will continue to pursue hybrids, PHEV, and BEV.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

with insane regulations and europe rapidly souring on diesel too and of course dieselgate, diesels are on their way out except for trucks.

mmarshall

I'm with Josh. I've usually preferred diesels over hybrids....(roughly) the same MPG can be had from a system that is far less complex, with only one engine instead of two, and without that large expensive hybrid battery-pack. Now, emissions.....that's a different story, but (notwithstanding the VW/Audi scandal), diesels CAN be cleaned up...it just takes more engineering work, and the periodic addition of the urea-solutions.

ArmyofOne

dafuq is a BEV?

Sulu

BEV = Battery Electric Vehicle

Diesels are dead. Mercedes-Benz gave up trying to certify their 2017 SUV diesel models because the authorities were taking too long to approve them.

If diesel emissions can be cleaned to meet ever-more stringent exhaust emissions standards, it is expensive and fussy to do so (have to replace the diesel exhaust fluid). That will not be worth it for passenger vehicles. Diesels will only remain for super-duty pickup trucks and large trucks.

MattyG

VW was the leader in US retail diesel sales of sedans, and we know what happened with that. So that leaves the work trucks for the tow/haul crowd. Can't see why any manufacturer is going to bother going through the EPA hoops just to sell a diesel sedan in the USA. I don't know if Lexus sedan customers worry all that much about fuel economy. It's one factor, but it's not the only factor.

Battery tech breakthroughs will probably drive hybrid vehicle sales more than diesel. In Europe, diesels are popular because of the atrociously high fuel prices there and other taxes on big displacement gasoline engines. They also had air pollution standards that would not allow a European diesel to meet North American standards.

Toys4RJill

Like I already said. Compare the Lexus 5.7 gas vs the Lexus 4.5 diesel. Look at the stats. The 4.5 diesel loses over 100+ horses and has just 80 lbs of torque as an advantage. The 5.7 alive will eat the 4.5 LX alive.

Lexus could possibly develop a diesel engine for the US market. But the gas engines are already so good. So what is the point of offering it?

ArmyofOne

to my knowledge the 4.5D was never available in the US market. That engine is also an outdated design. It has common rail instead of direct injection. That engine has largely remained unchanged since the Land cruiser of the early 00's. A modern diesel, such as one in the newest land cruiser overseas or the prado (LX platform and the prado is i believe the base platform for the GX) which have Direct Injection and turbo's would be much more powerful and efficient.

for instance, the 12v common rail cummins in a 2001 Ram 2500 had 250hp and around 400 ft-lbs of torque. The current cummins engine in them has 550hp and 900 ft-lbs.

Toys4RJill

The current Lexus 450 uses the diesel that debuted in 08 along when Toyota updated the LX and Land Cruiser. Both are 200 series engines. Both are V8s. Both are specd at the same towing and GVWR. So it is a very fair comparison. That is why I said a diesel LX would of work as the 5.7 is just a better engine. The 4.5 diesel is more of 4.7 or 4.6 gas alternative for the time. Lexus would need a much bigger 5.0+++ diesel for the American market.

I am really not sure where you think a Lexus diesel will get 50mpg on the highway.

I will say. The lack of a diesel Lexus in the USA is more of a market thing than anything else. The US will reject it. You are right, they are satisfying. However the big gas engines are also very very good.

ArmyofOne

I would say it won't get 50mpg in a big SUV, but a small 2.5-3.0L diesel in an ES I could easily see hitting 50mpg highway, if not more. The 5.7 is a stout engine, but lets face it, the economy isn't there. Most people in that market, while not a priority, do concern themselves (at least somewhat) with MPG. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 25-30mpg hwy from a 5.0L diesel in an LX, or a GX.

Where I think they could really excel though, is in a diesel-electric hybrid. Much like the volt, which has a gasoline generator to power an electric car, A diesel electric hybrid would use electric motors at all 4 wheels, and draw power from its battery bank. When the battery bank gets down below 5%, if it hasn't been plugged in, the Diesel generator kicks on (uses maybe a 10 gal tank), and runs until the batteries are recharged, then the car switches back to sole electric power. In theory with this, if the battery pack had good enough range (say 200 miles), one could cross the US and never need a charging station, as long as diesel is available.

In that aspect, they could get 100+ mpg I would think. Diesel generators run at a steady RPM and burn very little fuel. A 5kw diesel genset can run under load for 24 hours or more non-stop on just 5 gallons of diesel. Seems like a win to me.

Toys4RJill

what you are proposing is just too expensive.

Lexus did offer a diesel IS in Europe. I wonder how that was received.

97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

The smell of diesel makes me sick.... so that's where I stand on all this.