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The way I look at it is this, would I pay LS money for the G90? No. Would I pay S Class money for the LS? No. The 7 and A8 fall in there for me somewhere in between the LS and S Class. Its just varying degrees. I 100% agree that the interior of the LS500 looks more interesting, and more "special" than that of the G90. However, I really want the car to ride and drive the way I want a car to ride and drive. I spent a lot of time in cars that didn't really feel the way I wanted them to feel on the road, but that I otherwise really liked. The GS is a great example of that.
And the pricing supports my position. The G90 is a great deal at $72k loaded AWD for the V6 car, optioned like a ~ $95,000 LS500. A $95,000 LS500 is optioned like a ~ $120,000 S Class. The manufacturers clearly understand the value proposition of their offerings here.
Does my LS460 make me feel "special" when I sit in it? Not really, as I've said before many of the materials inside let me down. However, it does make me feel special when I drive it because its so quiet and it rides so smooth and nicely. I'm not going to be happy in an LS500 if it doesn't ride and drive the way I want it to, no matter how nice the interior is.
I likely would not go to the G90 over the LS500 simply because of cost. However, if its a much softer and better riding car and is less "sporty" the way the reviews make it out to be, then I very well may and accept the lower cost as a bonus. Or I just go for it and get an A8, 7 or S Class.
Well-put. If I were in this segment (which, I'm not ) I would probably prioritize the ride and overall comfort over the style/design of the interior. I haven't driven a G90, but if the G80 is any indication, it's probably plenty comfy for the price - and the interior seems worth the money you pay, given that it is cheaper than its competitors. (I would definitely go with the V8 though )
Do we even know the pricing on the LS500 at this point?
With SUVs being much more in demand, all of Toyco (Lexus included) is shifting to more emotional/sportiness in their standard sedans to differentiate the purchase of a SUV instead. Whether that is the right decision or not remains to be seen.
1) It is a very large and long vehicle with a very long hood (probably for good weight distribution, but eats into the interior space)
2) Huge front and executed nicely in FSport trim (except for that hood line)
3) The rear, which isnt't bad with a nice menacing taillight.
4) the controversial C/D pillar isn't so bad in person.
Originally Posted by ST430
Do we even know the pricing on the LS500 at this point?
With SUVs being much more in demand, all of Toyco (Lexus included) is shifting to more emotional/sportiness in their standard sedans to differentiate the purchase of a SUV instead. Whether that is the right decision or not remains to be seen.
The Motor Trend review was stupid. Anybody with an objective bone in their body knows that the Bimmer and Lexus should've taken spots 1 and 2, with the G90 taking 3rd by virtue of still coming up short in some luxury and infotainment areas, and having an overall uninspired design inside and out.
That's hard to say about the Bimmer 7. Maybe with the 3.0 single turbo motor. But if you read CD's long term test they called the 7 a bit too wallowy and it let expansion joints intrude into the cabin and had too much bob and bounce. All the things Bimmer 3's, 5's, and even 7's of old could do really well have been transferred down to the 2 series. One CD reviewer is particularly harsh, comparing the 7's suspension to a Kia K900. The LS 500 is going the opposite direction. Much tighter and controlled ride.
Originally Posted by ST430
It is a very large and long vehicle with a very long hood (probably for good weight distribution, but eats into the interior space
The styling still doesn't do anything for me. Long front overhang due to the big nose treatment up front and too much Infiniti side profile. The back end seems to have a square skyscraper trunk lid treatment. The AWD LS is running 54/46 balance front to rear.
Having spent the past 6 months driving the new Genesis G90 TTV6, after spending 3 years driving a 2008 LS 600hL, I can agree with many of the points made in this spirited debate (LS vs G90).
What comes through the clearest to me when I drive the G90, though, is that this car could have easily been a Lexus LS in "an alternate universe" where Lexus had chosen to continue down the path of old-school luxury combined with modern safety features, instead of the current path towards a sportier suspension and an edgy, gaping maw of a front end.
Does my G90 elicit high emotion when sitting in it? Not exactly -- but it does evoke a feeling of serenity and calm, much like my LS600hL used to. I went with the G90 for the modern luxury safety features (heads-up-display, radar cruise, pedestrian detection and avoidance, etc.), the simple but elegant styling, and the overall value proposition, things I couldn't find at the time (June of this year) in a new LS (although I realize most of the new safety features can be had next year sometime in the new LS).
I haven't had a single regret since I leased my G90, and the car grows on me more and more as I get it broken in.
Having spent the past 6 months driving the new Genesis G90 TTV6, after spending 3 years driving a 2008 LS 600hL, I can agree with many of the points made in this spirited debate (LS vs G90).
What comes through the clearest to me when I drive the G90, though, is that this car could have easily been a Lexus LS in "an alternate universe" where Lexus had chosen to continue down the path of old-school luxury combined with modern safety features, instead of the current path towards a sportier suspension and an edgy, gaping maw of a front end.
Does my G90 elicit high emotion when sitting in it? Not exactly -- but it does evoke a feeling of serenity and calm, much like my LS600hL used to. I went with the G90 for the modern luxury safety features (heads-up-display, radar cruise, pedestrian detection and avoidance, etc.), the simple but elegant styling, and the overall value proposition, things I couldn't find at the time (June of this year) in a new LS (although I realize most of the new safety features can be had next year sometime in the new LS).
I haven't had a single regret since I leased my G90, and the car grows on me more and more as I get it broken in.
Would you pay $30K more or whatever the equivalent price is vs a LS for your current G90?
Would you pay $30K more or whatever the equivalent price is vs a LS for your current G90?
I'm not sure I completely understand the question, but I can say if I had a choice between driving a standard 2017 LS460 or a 2017 Genesis G90 every day (price being equal), I'd definitely pick the G90. I'm not sure that analogy would hold on the new LS, since I haven't seen one in person or driven one, but based on the MotorTrend article and based on my own preferences (conservative styling, maximum quiet and road isolation, etc.), I may still chose the G90 over the LS500 if cost was equivalent (which it obviously is not). I'm sure the LS500 will be an incredible car for someone wanting a bit more styling pizazz and athletic road manners, I'm just not that guy.
Keep in mind that I'm leasing the G90 for the mid-$600 range. I couldn't touch a LS460 (let alone a LS500) for anything near that price.
I'm not sure I completely understand the question, but I can say if I had a choice between driving a standard 2017 LS460 or a 2017 Genesis G90 every day (price being equal), I'd definitely pick the G90. .
Just wondering if you would pay the same money for a Genesis vs a Lexus. Most people I would assume would not. Same goes for some Lexus models vs a Mercedes or Audi. You see it now in everyday life, people are willing to pay a lot for the badge. I always wonder if brands like Lexus can command the same prices as a Mercedes or I am wondering now with Genesis. Too many times I hear on here that this car competes with this car or this brand competes with this brand, but does it really?
Just wondering if you would pay the same money for a Genesis vs a Lexus. Most people I would assume would not. Same goes for some Lexus models vs a Mercedes or Audi. You see it now in everyday life, people are willing to pay a lot for the badge. I always wonder if brands like Lexus can command the same prices as a Mercedes or I am wondering now with Genesis. Too many times I hear on here that this car competes with this car or this brand competes with this brand, but does it really?
Remember, Jill, that what made the original LS400 famous, and (along with superior customer service) really established the Lexus name, was the fact that the LS400 essentially outdid Mercedes at their own game.....at a substantially lower cost and better warranty. Now, although the Genesis models aren't currently selling as briskly as the early-90s Lexus models did, history (may?) be on the verge of repeating itself.
The only significant difference that I can see, between then and now, is that, back then, SUVs weren't the huge factor they are today. Genesis would, no doubt, be doing better if they had an SUV....which they don't. Also, some stand-alone dealerships wouldn't hurt.
not to get too far off topic in regards to Genesis in this LS500 thread..
Originally Posted by mmarshall
You seem to forget, Jill, that what made the original LS400 famous, and (along with superior customer service) really established the Lexus name, was the fact that the LS400 essentially outdid Mercedes at their own game
Well the G90 doesn't outdo the Mercedes S-Class, so in that regard Genesis fails today (for now) where Lexus succeeded (back then) in putting the segment on notice.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
.....at a substantially lower cost and better warranty. Now, although the Genesis models aren't currently selling as briskly as the early-90s Lexus models did, history (may?) be on the verge of repeating itself.
And when you're not established you have to have an ace in the hole. It worked for Lexus back then, because look at what the competition was producing. Nowadays you can find a solidly built car from pretty much anyone. Cutting and pasting the Lexus formula won't work. I believe you answered your own question with your response below. 0 SUVs in the Genesis stable, little interest in expensive sedans (the G70 3-series fighter will help, but not as much as a utility vehicle).
Originally Posted by mmarshall
The only significant difference that I can see, between then and now, is that, back then, SUVs weren't the huge factor they are today. Genesis would, no doubt, be doing better if they had an SUV....which they don't. Also, some stand-alone dealerships wouldn't hurt.
Yup, they need some SUVs, and I definitely agree they need stand-alone dealers. Perception is everything to the 'luxury' buyer. Genesis might make a great product but 9/10 if I give someone the choice between a Genesis sedan vs an equivalent model from an established brand like Benz, BMW, Jag, Lexus, Audi etc.. folks will pick the latter(s). The power of a badge is immense.
Neither the G90 nor the LS500, today, actually outdoes the S-Class. The point I was making, though, is that the G90 today, is a credible alternative to the LS, at a lower cost and better warranty.
Cutting and pasting the Lexus formula won't work.
That part, I'm not sure I agree with. If Genesis can get some models that will sell, I think they can more or less repeat what Lexus did almost 30 years ago.
Yup, they need some SUVs, and I definitely agree they need stand-alone dealers. Perception is everything to the 'luxury' buyer. Genesis might make a great product but 9/10 if I give someone the choice between a Genesis sedan vs an equivalent model from an established brand like Benz, BMW, Jag, Lexus, Audi etc.. folks will pick the latter(s). The power of a badge is immense.
That's because many are uneducated. I agree.....too many buy simply on image.
To be fair, when buying a luxury item image and prestige has a lot to do with it. Anybody who says it doesn't isn't being honest with you. Even for me, knowing what the car brings to the table I would have a hard time parting with my Lexus for a car that I'm going to have to constantly explain to everybody what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I think they car looks nice, but its something about the new Lexus cars that makes me go, meh. I find the designs not to be timeless like the 06-11's.
Don't get me wrong, I think they car looks nice, but its something about the new Lexus cars that makes me go, meh. I find the designs not to be timeless like the 06-11's.
You are spot on, and the 06-11's managed a class leading 35,000 units/year on debut too.
12-19-17, 02:19 PM
) I would probably prioritize the ride and overall comfort over the style/design of the interior. I haven't driven a G90, but if the G80 is any indication, it's probably plenty comfy for the price - and the interior seems worth the money you pay, given that it is cheaper than its competitors. (I would definitely go with the V8 though 
