tesla's real impact - breaking the car dealer monopoly
07-11-17, 07:03 AM
#106
Lexus Fanatic
The reasons these laws exist are to protect consumers by creating competition, and to protect jobs. Dealerships are a huge source of employment, tax revenue for local areas, etc.
As technology allows us to do more and more without people, this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem. This is what IMHO will be the ultimate downfall of our system, people have to work someplace, and when you dramatically reduce the workforce involved in nearly every industry, you're creating a huge underclass of people who can't get meaningful employment because there's nowhere to work. What do you do with those people?
As technology allows us to do more and more without people, this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem. This is what IMHO will be the ultimate downfall of our system, people have to work someplace, and when you dramatically reduce the workforce involved in nearly every industry, you're creating a huge underclass of people who can't get meaningful employment because there's nowhere to work. What do you do with those people?
07-11-17, 07:16 AM
#107
yea because the dealership salesmen are highly trained. I often know more about the car than them. Now with automotive youtuber reviews, why do you even need a salesman to tell you about the car. Compare this with a tesla storefront, they truly know the product, they are highly trained factory reps. Dealerships need people like this, but salesmen arent car people nor are they interested in the product. Dealership salesmen are often straight commission, it costs the dealer next to nothing to employ them. Zero incentive to invest in their salesmen.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 07-11-17 at 07:19 AM.
07-11-17, 07:19 AM
#108
Lead Lap
Yes they all do. When I buy appliances at my local appliance store it is pretty well known that I will be getting a discount from MSRP. I just bought some appliances that don't use a MSRP but a UMRP (which means that dealers are not allowed to discount these higher end appliances) and I still got a discount, not as much as the MSRP products but I did get a little off.
07-11-17, 07:20 AM
#109
Lexus Fanatic
The main problem, though, is that most manufacturers simply can't afford the facilities needed to actually display, sell, service, repair, and do the warranty work/recalls on their vehicles. Dealerships exist for a reason. Tesla, of course, is bucking that trend.....time will tell if they survive as an auto manufacturer, but many aren't betting on it.
07-11-17, 07:22 AM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by patgilm
Yes they all do. When I buy appliances at my local appliance store it is pretty well known that I will be getting a discount from MSRP. I just bought some appliances that don't use a MSRP but a UMRP (which means that dealers are not allowed to discount these higher end appliances) and I still got a discount, not as much as the MSRP products but I did get a little off.
07-11-17, 07:25 AM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
07-11-17, 07:45 AM
#112
The main problem, though, is that most manufacturers simply can't afford the facilities needed to actually display, sell, service, repair, and do the warranty work/recalls on their vehicles. Dealerships exist for a reason. Tesla, of course, is bucking that trend.....time will tell if they survive as an auto manufacturer, but many aren't betting on it.
07-11-17, 07:47 AM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
about 'creating competition', while different brands compete with one another, obviously many consumers are very partial to specific brands, and not everyone lives in a bustling metropolis (or nearby) to have multiple dealers in their town. in my town there's one huge toyota dealer, one honda dealer, one hyundai, etc. they all do very well and don't discount much as all and all play the usual shenanigans with dealer add on 'value packages'
fees, etc. i can go 50-150mi. away to other dealers, but they mostly behave the same way, so i might as well (if i could) have no dealer at all.
Dealerships are a huge source of employment, tax revenue for local areas, etc.
As technology allows us to do more and more without people, this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem. This is what IMHO will be the ultimate downfall of our system, people have to work someplace, and when you dramatically reduce the workforce involved in nearly every industry, you're creating a huge underclass of people who can't get meaningful employment because there's nowhere to work. What do you do with those people?
fixed.
07-11-17, 09:22 AM
#114
glad that you admitted its protectionism, great for some, not the consumer. I thought it was the most efficient. Malls are dying across the US, should we make laws to force consumer to buy from a mall instead of online so they dont go out of business? How about we make a law that forces you to rent movies from Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, not Netflix, so BB and HV can stay in business. Protectionism protects lobbied interests, not the consumer. If it was already the most efficient, you dont need a law.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 07-11-17 at 09:27 AM.
07-11-17, 10:11 AM
#115
Lead Lap
Tesla is small enough where they can control their own stores without third party dealer, but for larger manufacturers this can be too much to handle and a whole new business model that they simply may not want to sustain. I know USA has certain laws that prevents manufacturers from selling cars directly to consumers without a dealers, but I doubt other countries have the same laws - and yet cars are still sold through dealerships almost everywhere to the best of my knowledge.
07-11-17, 10:34 AM
#116
Lexus Champion
The main problem, though, is that most manufacturers simply can't afford the facilities needed to actually display, sell, service, repair, and do the warranty work/recalls on their vehicles. Dealerships exist for a reason. Tesla, of course, is bucking that trend.....time will tell if they survive as an auto manufacturer, but many aren't betting on it.
What you are saying is that huge automakers, like Toyota or GM or Ford, cannot afford to sell their own cars, yet some guy who has begged, borrowed, stolen and mortgaged to scrape together a few million dollars to open a dealership CAN afford to sell cars.
It is not a question of not being able to AFFORD to sell cars, it is the age-old mentality (in the USA) about free enterprise being able to do it better, and then not being legally allowed to directly sell their own cars (in many states of the USA) that is keeping automakers from selling their own cars.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Mercedes-Benz dealerships in the largest markets in Canada (Toronto and Vancouver) are owned by Mercedes-Benz and they seem to be doing well.
07-11-17, 10:39 AM
#117
glad that you admitted its protectionism, great for some, not the consumer. I thought it was the most efficient. Malls are dying across the US, should we make laws to force consumer to buy from a mall instead of online so they dont go out of business? How about we make a law that forces you to rent movies from Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, not Netflix, so BB and HV can stay in business. Protectionism protects lobbied interests, not the consumer. If it was already the most efficient, you dont need a law.
07-11-17, 11:46 AM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
This makes absolutely no sense at all. This is what I call "blinded by your preconceptions" (and there is a lot of that in this thread), and unwilling to look at a different way of doing things.
What you are saying is that huge automakers, like Toyota or GM or Ford, cannot afford to sell their own cars, yet some guy who has begged, borrowed, stolen and mortgaged to scrape together a few million dollars to open a dealership CAN afford to sell cars.
It is not a question of not being able to AFFORD to sell cars, it is the age-old mentality (in the USA) about free enterprise being able to do it better, and then not being legally allowed to directly sell their own cars (in many states of the USA) that is keeping automakers from selling their own cars.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Mercedes-Benz dealerships in the largest markets in Canada (Toronto and Vancouver) are owned by Mercedes-Benz and they seem to be doing well.
What you are saying is that huge automakers, like Toyota or GM or Ford, cannot afford to sell their own cars, yet some guy who has begged, borrowed, stolen and mortgaged to scrape together a few million dollars to open a dealership CAN afford to sell cars.
It is not a question of not being able to AFFORD to sell cars, it is the age-old mentality (in the USA) about free enterprise being able to do it better, and then not being legally allowed to directly sell their own cars (in many states of the USA) that is keeping automakers from selling their own cars.
As I mentioned in another thread, the Mercedes-Benz dealerships in the largest markets in Canada (Toronto and Vancouver) are owned by Mercedes-Benz and they seem to be doing well.
07-11-17, 11:51 AM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
This makes absolutely no sense at all. This is what I call "blinded by your preconceptions" (and there is a lot of that in this thread), and unwilling to look at a different way of doing things.
What you are saying is that huge automakers, like Toyota or GM or Ford, cannot afford to sell their own cars, yet some guy who has begged, borrowed, stolen and mortgaged to scrape together a few million dollars to open a dealership CAN afford to sell cars.
It is not a question of not being able to AFFORD to sell cars, it is the age-old mentality (in the USA) about free enterprise being able to do it better, and then not being legally allowed to directly sell their own cars (in many states of the USA) that is keeping automakers from selling their own cars.
What you are saying is that huge automakers, like Toyota or GM or Ford, cannot afford to sell their own cars, yet some guy who has begged, borrowed, stolen and mortgaged to scrape together a few million dollars to open a dealership CAN afford to sell cars.
It is not a question of not being able to AFFORD to sell cars, it is the age-old mentality (in the USA) about free enterprise being able to do it better, and then not being legally allowed to directly sell their own cars (in many states of the USA) that is keeping automakers from selling their own cars.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
post of the day, thank you.
Tesla, admittedly, still has the system, but their future, right now, as an automaker, is in some serious doubt.Here's a good video on the subject. See what Bob Lutz and Bob Nardelli have to say about it......two very experienced auto executives who happen to know a thing or two about bankruptcy themselves.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-11-17 at 12:01 PM.
07-11-17, 12:52 PM
#120
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
What on earth does that video have anything to do with whether car manufacturers could afford their own dealerships?