Lexus Loses Its Luster in J.D. Power Quality Study
06-22-17, 07:40 AM
#61
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That is a sure sign that vehicles are getting too complex in the number of controls, functions, and how those functions/controls are used. One should not have to have a college degree, or have to read (and learn) several hundred pages of an Owners' Manual to do simple things on a dash or console.
If customers are, in fact, complaining about this, then IMO they have a right to....it is something legitimate.
If customers are, in fact, complaining about this, then IMO they have a right to....it is something legitimate.
06-22-17, 07:46 AM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RXSF
yes, they have the right to complain, Im not arguing that. I am simply saying this is an initial quality study. Does complexity of electronics belong on a quality survey? That's debatable
06-22-17, 08:03 AM
#63
Go read the new rx forum. You'll see why the rankings have fallen due to their number one selling car. Others have clearly caught up and passed Lexus. The brand has little excitement throughout its lineup.
06-22-17, 08:26 AM
#64
Yes, I heard that the LS NVH is on another level.
When I was a teenager, I was into coupes like the Mazda RX-7 and MX-6 etc.
In my 20's, I went for sub-compacts like the 323, and later, the Civic.
In my 30's, I went for compacts.
The past two decades, I went for midsizers that cruise well, but I can throw around corners and go for the occasional burn.
I will keep an eye out for the full size LS over the next decade.
Be careful with Benz E400 suspension.
Are you using standard E400 soft floaty suspension on 19" or even 20" alloys with low profile tires, or do you have the AMG Sports suspension?
There are two major components: the coil springs, and the dampers [shock absorbers].
Benz tend to use soft coils around firm dampers in their AMG Sports suspension.
In other words, the soft coils result in more compliance and compression for a smoother and more cosseting ride, but there is also more roll and weight transfer to the outside wheels such that the car "two-wheels" on the outside tires, resulting in a vehicle that doesn't handle as pin sharp to directional changes, nor as much terminal grip as its competitor the Lexus 4GS.
Meanwhile, the AMG Sport's firm dampers ensure that the vehicle does not float, ie weave up and down after hitting a bump; in other words, there is more body control.
Float is scientifically a low frequency of vertical oscillation with a slow rate of cyclic movements that is perceived as comfortable.
On the other hand, firm dampers result in a high frequency of vertical oscillation, and such rapid cyclic movements are physically tiring.
By contrast, the Lexus 4GS has both firm coils springs, and firm dampers - and this produces a flatter body attitude, with less weight transfer to the outside wheels for more four-wheel grip, hence greater agility, faster changes in direction, and more terminal grip, but at a cost to the ride, because the coils springs are taut and less compliant.
Personally, I prefer soft coils around soft dampers like the old 2005-12 3GS - which my staff drive daily.
The old 3GS is both compliant and floaty.
When we switch its electronic dampers to Sports, we end up with a soft coil spring but firmly damped ride.
Presently, there is no perfect suspension system; it is all a compromize...
_
When I was a teenager, I was into coupes like the Mazda RX-7 and MX-6 etc.
In my 20's, I went for sub-compacts like the 323, and later, the Civic.
In my 30's, I went for compacts.
The past two decades, I went for midsizers that cruise well, but I can throw around corners and go for the occasional burn.
I will keep an eye out for the full size LS over the next decade.
Be careful with Benz E400 suspension.
Are you using standard E400 soft floaty suspension on 19" or even 20" alloys with low profile tires, or do you have the AMG Sports suspension?
There are two major components: the coil springs, and the dampers [shock absorbers].
Benz tend to use soft coils around firm dampers in their AMG Sports suspension.
In other words, the soft coils result in more compliance and compression for a smoother and more cosseting ride, but there is also more roll and weight transfer to the outside wheels such that the car "two-wheels" on the outside tires, resulting in a vehicle that doesn't handle as pin sharp to directional changes, nor as much terminal grip as its competitor the Lexus 4GS.
Meanwhile, the AMG Sport's firm dampers ensure that the vehicle does not float, ie weave up and down after hitting a bump; in other words, there is more body control.
Float is scientifically a low frequency of vertical oscillation with a slow rate of cyclic movements that is perceived as comfortable.
On the other hand, firm dampers result in a high frequency of vertical oscillation, and such rapid cyclic movements are physically tiring.
By contrast, the Lexus 4GS has both firm coils springs, and firm dampers - and this produces a flatter body attitude, with less weight transfer to the outside wheels for more four-wheel grip, hence greater agility, faster changes in direction, and more terminal grip, but at a cost to the ride, because the coils springs are taut and less compliant.
Personally, I prefer soft coils around soft dampers like the old 2005-12 3GS - which my staff drive daily.
The old 3GS is both compliant and floaty.
When we switch its electronic dampers to Sports, we end up with a soft coil spring but firmly damped ride.
Presently, there is no perfect suspension system; it is all a compromize...
_
You are talking about reliability, I'm talking about driving quality.
Mercedes E400 is far superior on the road and over the bumper than GS350 does.
and E400 (including my previous E350) has very sold feeling, no any rattle or cracking noise.
06-22-17, 08:35 AM
#65
Pole Position
Based on some previous post there are definitely some that do not understand INITIAL quality survey. It has absolutely nothing to do with how satisfied one is with the car or how dependable. It there own words the study is within the first 90 days, the study captures problems experienced by owners in defects and malfunctions. Not how the car handles, how comfortable are the seats etc.
06-22-17, 08:42 AM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Based on some previous post there are definitely some that do not understand INITIAL quality survey. It has absolutely nothing to do with how satisfied one is with the car or how dependable. It there own words the study is within the first 90 days, the study captures problems experienced by owners in defects and malfunctions. Not how the car handles, how comfortable are the seats etc.
http://www.jdpower.com/resource/us-i...lity-study-iqs
The J.D. Power U.S. Initial Quality StudySM (IQS) serves as the industry benchmark for new-vehicle quality measured at 90 days of ownership and has proven to be an excellent predictor of longterm reliability, which may significantly impact new-vehicle purchase decisions. The focus of the study is model-level performance and comparison of individual models to similar models in respective segments, which helps manufacturers worldwide to design and produce higher-quality vehicles that exceed owners’ expectations.
The study examines 233 problems, which are organized into eight categories:
The study examines 233 problems, which are organized into eight categories:
- Exterior
- Seats
- Driving Experience
- Engine/Transmission
- Features/Controls/Displays (FCD)
- Interior
- Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning (HVAC)
- Audio/Communication/Entertainment/Navigation (ACEN)
06-22-17, 08:43 AM
#67
Pole Position
Go to J D Power's web site and read the criteria that they base their initial quality study. It is not I don't like my seat but it is the seat does not move. It is not I do not like my cup holder but my cup holder is cracked when I bought it.
06-22-17, 08:46 AM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
If it were simply "defects" as you say then poorly designed yet functioning infotainment systems wouldn't impact the score.
06-22-17, 08:47 AM
#69
Well I think that it might be expected when the whole line of cars have new designs. In a few years they will refine the model over the years.
For the electronic side, I can say that I have at least two: Received Texts on my phone are most of the time not forwarded to my infonment system. Second, my reverse camera guiding lines do not work in cold weather. They did not manage to fix that last winter, Lexus engineers will look it up at fall when cold weather gets back... I think those a real problems and not just being unsatisfied by the interface like many auto critic journalists report.
But it is a good question as what is really counted as being a problem? We may never know.
For the electronic side, I can say that I have at least two: Received Texts on my phone are most of the time not forwarded to my infonment system. Second, my reverse camera guiding lines do not work in cold weather. They did not manage to fix that last winter, Lexus engineers will look it up at fall when cold weather gets back... I think those a real problems and not just being unsatisfied by the interface like many auto critic journalists report.
But it is a good question as what is really counted as being a problem? We may never know.
what is considered a problem? for instance lets say for Lexus (30 people (age 65 to 70) complained about the infotainment to be to cumbersome and the other 60 people complained about various problem like suspension is too stiff, seats not comfortable, not enough leg room) total 90 complains
meanwhile for BMW you have complains like ( 40 people complain about their car catching fire while its parked, and another 10 people complained about their speakers rattling above certain volume) total 50 complains
survey says BMW as a better quality.
I REST MY CASE
06-22-17, 09:00 AM
#71
Would you buy a car with a broken cup holder?
Would you buy a car that the seat does not move especially when that is one of the first feature you use and probably use everyday.
ONE MAN FOOD IS ANOTHER MAN POISON.
PERSON A brakes are squeaking I DIY took them babies out applied brake grease put them back noise gone no complain. PERSON B goes to dealer complain survey problem brake noise.
What you see as a problem in a Lexus might not be a problem in a KIA expectations are different.
I REST MY CASE
I REST MY CASE AGAIN
06-22-17, 09:03 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
Explaining it away doesn't work when we laud the survey when Lexus does well. If the methodology is flawed, it's always been flawed. Lexus used to perform above the competition and now they don't, the reasons for that need to be addressed.
06-22-17, 09:05 AM
#74
Truth is there will always be something.
06-22-17, 09:10 AM
#75
Pole Position
That's possible. But like me and you know, there is that one friend of ours that uses a window phone right or better yet my dad that does not even know how to turn his phone's Bluetooth on how would he link to the apple carplay or android auto?
Truth is there will always be something.
Truth is there will always be something.
