2019 Toyota Supra
#1021
Lead Lap
edit: it became standard in 1997
as an aside, i think this explains what's fundamentally wrong with the zupra and why it shouldn't be called supra
https://web.archive.org/web/19970606...pc03lFb4t-1v@@
notice what's the first item toyota lists for explaining why the supra is so good
Last edited by Stroock639; 05-14-19 at 07:26 PM.
#1022
Lead Lap
Chances of running into a bone stock MKIV is slim to none these days ha ha, all the bone stock ones are now collector/garage queen status. Full torque comes in at 15/1600 rpms on the MKV that's very impressive meaning a good power range but it's 11:1 compression so expected. I would love to see a rwhp dyno on a bone stock MKV, no way it's 335 crank which is around 255 at wheels.
#1023
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (2)
Interesting comment. LC is Lexus' best example since the LFA. It gets positive remarks on looks, performance and quality from across the spectrum. The only thing that is commonly disliked about it is the infotainment.
Your bias is really showing here, try to contain it a little more, unless you just want others to not take you seriously. In that case, go nuts.
#1024
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
Interesting comment. LC is Lexus' best example since the LFA. It gets positive remarks on looks, performance and quality from across the spectrum. The only thing that is commonly disliked about it is the infotainment.
Your bias is really showing here, try to contain it a little more, unless you just want others to not take you seriously. In that case, go nuts.
Your bias is really showing here, try to contain it a little more, unless you just want others to not take you seriously. In that case, go nuts.
#1025
#1027
Moderator
iTrader: (5)
I saw that C&D article earlier yesterday. I knew my earlier suspicion that it was an underrated engine (just like the 2JZGTE) was right. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more like 335whp rather than 335hp at the crank. A dyno will easily tell us the true figure. No way even with a ZF8 and near maximum torque from 1600rpm is a 3400lb 335hp(crank) car doing 0-60 in 4.1. And now its down to 3.8 seconds
On the Supra MKV forums it's been noted that this version of the B58 in the USA did not receive a particulate filter which may be partly contributing to the power output well beyond the official figure Toyota wants to stick to.
Also the Supra's B58 cylinder head (with an integrated exhaust manifold) is apparently not a hindrance to making more power into the 700hp range in testing nor was it really that much help in reducing emissions over a traditional head. Probably the limit ceiling goes even higher if the later GRMN switches to the cylinder head with the traditional exhaust ports and a separate manifold for a different turbo setup.
It still needs a manual though even if the 0-60 will be slightly slower... because who cares when you've got a six or seven speed lever in your hand. Tada-san did address a question about that at the recent launch event saying through his translator that several BMW manuals were evaluated but he didn't consider them up to his standard for this car. There was the hint of another manual avenue being pursued but of course he would not confirm anything or be more specific.
But think about that. It's easy enough to look up the manual transmissions used in the current (or last gen) M3's and M4's and the M2/Competition. And Tetsuya Tada still felt an even stronger manual gearbox would be needed and that such an additional avenue was being looked into or in his wording, "considered". It confirms nothing and gives absolutely nothing for concrete info but that's the way the chief engineer was talking about it after being bombarded with feedback over the lack of a manual option for Toyota's most famous sports car.
...which just had its official manufacturer claimed 0-60 time (with Launch Mode enabled) improved on by .3 seconds in an independent test with the ZF8.
As far as the LC500, I personally love that car. It's kind of the closest we've had since 2000 to a spiritual Z30 SC successor in a kind of ultimate guise for what the car mostly was in a personal luxury GT coupe. It's beautiful, fast and oozes style.
But the MKV is a totally different level of car. An actual sports car with room to grow well beyond what it can do stock.
On the Supra MKV forums it's been noted that this version of the B58 in the USA did not receive a particulate filter which may be partly contributing to the power output well beyond the official figure Toyota wants to stick to.
Also the Supra's B58 cylinder head (with an integrated exhaust manifold) is apparently not a hindrance to making more power into the 700hp range in testing nor was it really that much help in reducing emissions over a traditional head. Probably the limit ceiling goes even higher if the later GRMN switches to the cylinder head with the traditional exhaust ports and a separate manifold for a different turbo setup.
It still needs a manual though even if the 0-60 will be slightly slower... because who cares when you've got a six or seven speed lever in your hand. Tada-san did address a question about that at the recent launch event saying through his translator that several BMW manuals were evaluated but he didn't consider them up to his standard for this car. There was the hint of another manual avenue being pursued but of course he would not confirm anything or be more specific.
But think about that. It's easy enough to look up the manual transmissions used in the current (or last gen) M3's and M4's and the M2/Competition. And Tetsuya Tada still felt an even stronger manual gearbox would be needed and that such an additional avenue was being looked into or in his wording, "considered". It confirms nothing and gives absolutely nothing for concrete info but that's the way the chief engineer was talking about it after being bombarded with feedback over the lack of a manual option for Toyota's most famous sports car.
...which just had its official manufacturer claimed 0-60 time (with Launch Mode enabled) improved on by .3 seconds in an independent test with the ZF8.
As far as the LC500, I personally love that car. It's kind of the closest we've had since 2000 to a spiritual Z30 SC successor in a kind of ultimate guise for what the car mostly was in a personal luxury GT coupe. It's beautiful, fast and oozes style.
But the MKV is a totally different level of car. An actual sports car with room to grow well beyond what it can do stock.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-15-19 at 03:19 AM.
#1029
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
well that's just one video i chose out of others i've seen, would drag radials actually account for a full second difference? and either way all they do is allow the car to reach it's potential, also a car only needs to go 10.999 once and it's technically now a 10 second car forever however atypical it may be
can we just agree that the C6 Z06 is very fast lol... i'm starting to think maybe you lost to one in your viper haha
can we just agree that the C6 Z06 is very fast lol... i'm starting to think maybe you lost to one in your viper haha
#1030
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
this car has to be significantly underrated, C&D just hit a 3.8 sec 0-60 in the supra, official spec is 4.1. That is definately not a 335 hp car. While not scientific using a simple 0-60 calculator, to hit a 4.1 0-60 in a 3300# RWD automatic car, the engine would have to have 435 hp. It has launch control but C&D said its launch control sucks and they were much faster without it
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 05-15-19 at 05:03 AM.
#1031
Lexus Test Driver
BMW has underrated their cars for years.
My E92 335i was rated at 300hp lol - Those N54 cars dynoed well over that.
Just look at the current M5 as prime example.
The Z4 will still be FASTER because it has the more powerful engine which will be coming to the Supra shortly.
This is not Toyota’s achievement- its all BMW engineering licensed out under Supra badge.
My E92 335i was rated at 300hp lol - Those N54 cars dynoed well over that.
Just look at the current M5 as prime example.
The Z4 will still be FASTER because it has the more powerful engine which will be coming to the Supra shortly.
This is not Toyota’s achievement- its all BMW engineering licensed out under Supra badge.
#1032
Lead Lap
There is NO WAY that BMW will put an ///M engine into a Toyota. They already said that there will be no Z4M so the new S58 engine will not go into any Supra.
The reason that Supra got the neutered B58 is for BMW to have the higher HP version.
This detuned version may be just “paper specs.” I would not be surprised that if you dyno the Z4 and Supra - they will be making identical #s.
B58 is easy to tune like most BMW turbos but to push out over 700hp - there will need to be other parts to upgrade in order to make it work. Plus any tune will void your warranty.
I’m sure the ECU tunes will be out there soon and u can easily make 50-100hp very safely.
The reason that Supra got the neutered B58 is for BMW to have the higher HP version.
This detuned version may be just “paper specs.” I would not be surprised that if you dyno the Z4 and Supra - they will be making identical #s.
B58 is easy to tune like most BMW turbos but to push out over 700hp - there will need to be other parts to upgrade in order to make it work. Plus any tune will void your warranty.
I’m sure the ECU tunes will be out there soon and u can easily make 50-100hp very safely.
Magna Steyr mfg worries me a tid bit (remember the E83 X3 was made there), but its Toyota they wont let them do anything.
Fun fact, like RNM has said, BMW always underrates their motors, to overimpress their reviewers and of course the general public.
#1033
Lexus Champion
More from C&D, comparing the new and the old:
More here.
In its day, the Mark IV Supra was quick as hell. The manual-equipped Turbo model that we tested in 1993 hit 60 mph in 4.6 seconds and went through the quarter-mile in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph. In a 1993 six-car comparison test, which it won, we described the Supra Turbo as "a rocket car" that pulled like a train. The 2020 Supra destroys the old car, though, with a 3.8-second zero-to-60-mph time and a quarter-mile dispatched in 12.3 seconds at 113 mph. The A80's 11.1-second zero-to-100-mph and 19.9-second zero-to-130 runs were similarly beaten; the new car posted times of 9.5 seconds to 100 mph and 17.4 seconds to 130.
The new Supra is also way quicker in passing, but that's to be expected given the transmission differences. The A90's 5-to-60-mph rolling start time of 4.6 seconds is 1.3 seconds quicker than the A80's, but the real improvement comes in the 30-to-50 and 50-to-70 acceleration runs, which are done in top gear. At 2.5 seconds from 30 to 50 mph and 2.8 seconds from 50 to 70 mph, the new Supra crushes the old car, which recorded times of 13.1 seconds and 8.1 seconds, respectively, in the same tests.
There is one category where the Mark IV should have the new car beat: top speed. Toyota says the new Supra is limited to 155 mph, while the 1993 car was able to hit 160 mph in our hands. But in our testing, the new car exceeded the limiter, still pulling past the 160 mark. We estimate its real top speed to be around 162 mph.
Grip has greatly improved, too. The A80 Turbo had 17-inch wheels wrapped in Bridgestone Potenza RE020 tires, sized 235/45 in front and 255/40 in the rear, while the A90 uses 19-inch wheels with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires, sized 255/35 in front and 275/35 in back. On our skidpad, the old car pulled 0.95 g, which was in the realm of (or better than) many higher-end sports cars at the time. But in the new car we recorded an excellent 1.07 g, nearly matching a Porsche 911 GT3.
The new Supra also has bigger brakes, using 13.7-inch vented discs in front and 13.6-inch vented discs in the rear, 1.0 inch and 0.8 inch larger than the old car (which also had vented discs). With a 160-foot stopping distance from 70 mph, the 1993 Supra would still be respectable today. But the 2020 Supra stopped in 148 feet, again putting it in the league of more hard-core modern machinery.
So that's how the two Supras compare on paper, at least in numbers. Sure, it might not be surprising that the new one is better in basically every measurable way—but it kind of had to be, right? Supra fans aren't exactly tame and easy to please.
There are two obvious ways the fourth-gen car is better in our eyes, though: It had that massive optional wing and an optional targa roof. The new Supra doesn't have either of those things. So we guess it's a tie, then.
The new Supra is also way quicker in passing, but that's to be expected given the transmission differences. The A90's 5-to-60-mph rolling start time of 4.6 seconds is 1.3 seconds quicker than the A80's, but the real improvement comes in the 30-to-50 and 50-to-70 acceleration runs, which are done in top gear. At 2.5 seconds from 30 to 50 mph and 2.8 seconds from 50 to 70 mph, the new Supra crushes the old car, which recorded times of 13.1 seconds and 8.1 seconds, respectively, in the same tests.
There is one category where the Mark IV should have the new car beat: top speed. Toyota says the new Supra is limited to 155 mph, while the 1993 car was able to hit 160 mph in our hands. But in our testing, the new car exceeded the limiter, still pulling past the 160 mark. We estimate its real top speed to be around 162 mph.
Grip has greatly improved, too. The A80 Turbo had 17-inch wheels wrapped in Bridgestone Potenza RE020 tires, sized 235/45 in front and 255/40 in the rear, while the A90 uses 19-inch wheels with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires, sized 255/35 in front and 275/35 in back. On our skidpad, the old car pulled 0.95 g, which was in the realm of (or better than) many higher-end sports cars at the time. But in the new car we recorded an excellent 1.07 g, nearly matching a Porsche 911 GT3.
The new Supra also has bigger brakes, using 13.7-inch vented discs in front and 13.6-inch vented discs in the rear, 1.0 inch and 0.8 inch larger than the old car (which also had vented discs). With a 160-foot stopping distance from 70 mph, the 1993 Supra would still be respectable today. But the 2020 Supra stopped in 148 feet, again putting it in the league of more hard-core modern machinery.
So that's how the two Supras compare on paper, at least in numbers. Sure, it might not be surprising that the new one is better in basically every measurable way—but it kind of had to be, right? Supra fans aren't exactly tame and easy to please.
There are two obvious ways the fourth-gen car is better in our eyes, though: It had that massive optional wing and an optional targa roof. The new Supra doesn't have either of those things. So we guess it's a tie, then.
#1034
live.love.laugh.lexus
iTrader: (42)
BMW has underrated their cars for years.
My E92 335i was rated at 300hp lol - Those N54 cars dynoed well over that.
Just look at the current M5 as prime example.
The Z4 will still be FASTER because it has the more powerful engine which will be coming to the Supra shortly.
This is not Toyota’s achievement- its all BMW engineering licensed out under Supra badge.
My E92 335i was rated at 300hp lol - Those N54 cars dynoed well over that.
Just look at the current M5 as prime example.
The Z4 will still be FASTER because it has the more powerful engine which will be coming to the Supra shortly.
This is not Toyota’s achievement- its all BMW engineering licensed out under Supra badge.