This will be a low seller and die a quick death for 3 reasons:

1. Already splitting sales with the BMW sibling
2. Lots of people already turned off by the fact that it's powered by BMW instead of a Toyota developed engine
3. C8 Corvette launch just around the corner with a ton of hype over the mid-engine layout.

 

Couldn't agree more, Toyota/Lexus has become complacent, resting on the legacy inherited from the legendary LS400. Today, the only reason to buy their cars are if you're a fanboy and or your primary criteria for a car is long term reliability. That's it, they are behind the competition in innovation, Lexus used to be at the forefront in innovation, not anymore. Genesis today shows more potential than Lexus, a real shame.

Toyota/Lexus today is following in the footsteps of Kodak, well maybe not as detrimental since they know their crossovers will sell along with the scamry/rolla etc. This is the company who felt compelled to offer a TRD package on a scamry, i mean, that's just insanity. They don't know what their target demographic wants. 3IS once a great car is now behind in the dust, nobody bothers to compare it with the new crop of cars in its lineup. This is a company that takes ages to update their cars. Facelift can now take 5 years before the modest changes occur. 5LS took forever to debut and yet became dead on arrival. It's just laughable but profits are on target and regardless of how lousy they've become people will still buy their cars.

As for me, when my lease ends in July, I am back to the Germans. If they build something competitive i may return, if not i will stick with BMW. A brand I left for the 3IS after more than a decade of loyalty and now being forced to return since Toyota makes nothing exciting besides their true F cars which are over-priced.

 

Yet you bought two of them in the last 3 years

 

I leased mine back in 2016 when i left BMW, since i chose not to get the F30 with it no longer being the ultimate driving machine as prior 3er were. Prior to 3IS, I never owned any Toyota and or Lexus products. The RX was bought last year for the spouse who is not a car enthusiast. She wanted an RX and i made sure she got what she wanted, as they say, happy wife, happy life.

 

The seem complete hit or miss lately. The got it right with cars like the RX, NX, ES, and LC. Not so much with the LS, RC, and IS.

 

I imagine the C8 will be 10-20K (or more) more than the Supra so probably not a factor.

But i don’t really see why someone would buy the new Supra unless they ‘always wanted one’ and don’t care about the BMW engine, interior, etc.

 

Doesn't change the point that you bought two Lexus products in 3 years...so you can't say they dont have any appeal.

Toyota/Lexus has NEVER been an enthusiast oriented brand. Never. So this argument that they've lost their way because they dont build enthusiast attracting vehicles holds no water. Hell, if anything they have way more enthusiast targeted products today than they ever did before.

 

come on, one of them was for his wife, not him, so that only leaves the 2016 IS which as he's said, he got because he didn't like the bmw version at the time.

i disagree with this. when they brought out the first IS it was anything but luxurious and appealed to a TON of younger (and older, lol) people. the second gen GS had a gigantic enthusiast following... the ads for "something wicked" were not about luxury... lol. but what i will say it lexus has been all over the map, with many tepid and tentative stabs at something more enthusiast oriented... they had "L-Tuned" which wasn't marketed, they had some TRD stuff, they've done F-Sport in recent years, most of which is appearance bits. and the LFA is basically a race car, 100% out of character for Lexus (i never understood why they did it, but glad they did, the car is AWESOME). somehow the internal skunkworks first gen IS-F got approved and came out... a stonking V8 in a small car... definitely an enthusiast product! and more recently the GS-F which is a great car just rare, expensive, and with tons of competitors so not a success.

i think there's internal conflict... why build 'enthusiast' models which sell in tiny numbers when they can sell another ton of middle of the road suv/cuvs?

 

But he still bought them. His wife wanted an RX...there is definitely an appeal, they just may not appeal to him.

If you really looked at what the second gen GS was though, it was not an enthusiast vehicle. it had great engines, but the platform was sloppy, the cars pretty softly sprung and compared to the E Class and 5 Series of the day dynamically they were way better. Like you said in the other thread, the market may have latched onto the 2GS with a huge enthusiast following but the product itself was not a huge enthusiast product. The first gen IS wasn't either.

There is absolutely a ton of internal conflict

 

Pretty much everyone who is a car enthusiast always wanted a Supra, and as far as I'm concerned BMW interior and infotainment is only a bonus over Toyotas disposable junk.

 

 

I've been watching the videos...I think I want one...

 

you're not "an enthusiast" you just like shiny new things lol

an enthusiast (or stubborn idiot depending on how you see things) would've continued with "I think I want one... but wouldn't get it out of protest for Toyota tarnishing the legacy of the supra for profit"

I want one too, and would even be able to overlook the BMWness if they had just called it something else... if more people had gotten to drive the mk iv I think they'd feel the same way

 

My wife's X6M lease ends in February, and if the next gen X6M isn't out by then, I'll try and talk her into getting the Supra, or taking over my M2 and I'll get the Supra.

 

Lol, shiny things. But think of it this way. Supra apparently translates into Japanese as Joki ni, so maybe this is Toyota's joke on the MKIV Supra boys. It's a sports car, theirs was a GT with near sports car handling and super car thrust.

It's got Bimmer DNA and theirs was a Toyota through and through. It has a wild racer body style and the MKIV was smooth and rounded, even mild looking.

Seriously though, as you mentioned, Supra was the slayer of the legendary Porsche 911 turbo and Aston Martin DB7. In today's world, it's hard to fault Toyota for not spending untold tens of millions on a limited seller. Both companies are happy with the outcome. It's the fans who are going to determine Supra's fate.

Tada san says the development processes were seperate after the bones of the 2 series were chopped and melted back into the chassis of the Supra/Z4. But really what he's not saying is that this is a genuine Toyota sports car product, because he can't. This Supra is a very good sports car and it will find a lot of fans who won't care about what hardware is sitting under the hood.

The enthusiasts of course will cross shop the M2 and the Cayman. Heck even a basic M235i starts lower than the Supra.