Sulu

I believe that Toyota continues to sell Sienna AWD models as a differentiating factor, just like Chrysler is the only automaker with the 2nd-row fold-into-the-floor (Stow 'n Go) seats. Every automaker needs something to differentiate itself from the others.

SW17LS

It works for Toyota, but the market is limited which is why other manufacturers haven't brought AWD minivans to the market. AWD in a Minivan isn't a new phenomenon and companies have done it besides Toyota. Chrysler used to offer AWD in their minivans and they don't now. Reason being? It wasn't worth it for them.

Even wth Toyota though, for instance here Lexus only stocks AWD in models they offer it in. You never find 2WD SUVs or Crossovers here. It's hard to find an AWD Sienna on a dealer lot, they don't order them that way. Why? Because they don't sell that well.

mmarshall

Reason-being (at least from my understanding): It interfered with the Stow-'N-Go seating....and vice-versa. That's why I stated, in a previous reply, that folding-seat-design is one of the things that have to be taken into consideration adding AWD to a minivan.

So you're saying that it's redundant for Toyota to keep it on the option-sheet? Even if they don't actually produce many AWD models at the factory, it still costs money to order and stock parts in the plant for them.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

awd on minivans is largely pointless because soccer moms wouldn't chance driving kids in the snow even if they had tank tracks, and besides, the kids are probably off school.

plus awd makes a vehicle heavier, less fuel efficient, and cost more. and in toyota/lexus case, have a front wheel gap big enough to hide luggage in.

SW17LS

The hybrid Pacifica does away with the Stow n Go seats. They felt it was worth it to do that to sell a hybrid, but not worth it to do that to sell an AWD Pacifica. There's a reason for that.

tex2670

I never said that the automaker research was based on Steve'e needs. And I never said that Toyota doesn't make money on them. But if there is pent up demand in the minivan marketplace for more AWD sales, more automakers would produce them. It's no different than station wagons--some automakers produce them for the US market, but not many--why? There's just not enough customer demand. That doesn't mean that the few wagon models that are available sell at a loss.

It's ECON 101--there's little supply, because it matches low demand.

mmarshall

I realize that. I was only using the comparison to make a point.

Buick, though, feels it can sell the new upcoming Regal Wagon (and 5-door hatchback)...to the point where they are dropping the sedan altogether. We'll see. I'm a little skeptical myself on that one myself, although the AWD version of the wagon could make some good competition for hot-selling Subaru Outbacks, even with a slightly lower ground clearance.

ECON 101 (and common sense) also teaches that you cannot sell what you do not produce (I took the course).

Sulu

The Chrysler minvans' mid-row well, which was required for the 2nd-row Stow 'n Go seats, took up underfloor space not allowing for a driveshaft from the front transaxle to the rear axle, so AWD was not possible. That same well is used for the hybrid battery in the Pacifica Hybrid. With the well filled, there can be no fold-into-the-floor Stow 'n Go seats, and no AWD. Chrysler could offer electrically-driven rear wheels (as Toyota does on its Highlander, RX, RAV4 and NX Hybrid models with AWD) but this is not (yet) offered on the Pacifica Hybrid.

Toyota, Honda and Kia decided to offer other 2nd-row seat options on their minivans that they say are more comfortable than the thin, fold-in-the-floor seats that Chrysler uses in its Stow 'n Go option. Without the 2nd-row well and without a middle seat, Toyota has room for a driveshaft, allowing for AWD; anchoring a middle seat (in the 8-passenger models) also takes up underfloor space so the 8-passenger Siennas do not offer AWD.

I agree that AWD minivans do not sell that well, but that option in the Sienna is a differentiating factor and a drawing card. Without that option, it would be argued that the Sienna is "just another minivan".

EZZ

Econ 101 and common sense also say that if the return on R&D outweigh demand, don't build it. I think everybody else here is suggesting just that.

mmarshall

That's why auto companies hire market-specialists (though some them, admittedly, make poor decisions)...to try and decide if a (potential) market worth the expenses and commitment of production. The fact that (at least in the past) the price of gas went up and down like a yo-yo certainly did not help things much. Lately, though, as OPEC's influence has considerably weakened, and we have become more energy self-sufficient here at home, gas prices seem to have been stable for some time.

mmarshall

I agree they're hard to find on the lot. They seem to be a special-order trim. On the other hand, one reason they don't sell better is because some people simply can't (or don't want to) wait. Impaitience is often a powerful force.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ok i think we're done with awd minivans being as rare as bigfoot here.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

folks, this thread isn't about siennas, awd, buicks, subarus or even lexus. read the thread title. and yes (before someone mentions ) i know i commented on the awd minivan popularity (or lack thereof), but this thread really has gone off the rails. if it's not related, post it elsewhere. thanks.

gptgirl

I drove the Odyssey Elite a couple of days ago. I really liked it. I hope I'm not going to regret selling my 2015 Lexus LX, but, if I can sell it, I will buy the 2018 Odyssey. I have 4 honda dealerships in my town. The dealership where I test drove the van said the sales price is MSRP. I have not discussed using my LX as a trade in. The NADA retail is $69,150. I wonder if anyone would give me that or if I should continue trying to sell it myself. I've never traded in a car, so, any tips would be appreciated.

mmarshall

Well, either way, you are probably going to have a lot of change in your pocket left over from that deal, whether you sell or trade the LX. Even the most expensive new Odyssey, at list, is going to sell for a lot less than 69K, which is what your LX is worth. If you trade, you may or may not get full-NADA or KBB value (depends on a number of factors). You could get a little more by selling privately (assuming people are willing to pay it)...but there are more complications and risks involved in dealing with strangers (carjacking, theft, etc...). Dealerships also, of course, have a Notary Public on hand for document-transfers....on a private sale, you or someone else may have to arrange that.

Personally, though, even though you are probably going to make a profit on this deal, I would not accept full-list price on the Odyssey from the dealership. Unless it's an official no-haggle list, with some effort, you can usually get them to give you least some discount. Since you are planning to get a 2018 instead of a 2017, that also gives you a little more flexibility...if you are willing to wait (it might take a few months if the vehicle has to come from overseas), you can order one from another dealership that will give you a discount if the first shop won't. If none of the local Honda dealerships will budge on price......well, then, you can cross that bridge if and when you come to it. Also keep in mind, of course, that all four shops may give you a different offer on your trade-in.