rominl

iTrader: (4)

same here, actually i was this close from getting the m6 gc if we didn't get the gl550. it's such a sweet car.

the 6 series is a step over the 4, there is no comparison. larger, more room, more luxurious, better materials. but i do think the 6 is not as balanced as i would like.

still a very interesting move though to take away the coupe but leaving the gc and vert behind

SW17LS

$100k isn't what it used to be. I don't think a loaded LC being $100k is a problem. Remember, loaded Suburbans are $80k, and they're everywhere. Almost every Suburban I see is a loaded LTZ, same with Tahoes. I never thought I would consider a $100,000 car yet here I am looking at Range Rovers, 7 Series, S Classes, all with $100k or near $100k stickers.

A coupe is not a value purchase, if somebody loves the LC, and it has the personality and uniqueness to the point where certain buyers will love it, they'll pay.

situman

I'm just wondering how many of those Subs and Tahoes are from rental companies or Uber or taxis and etc.

SW17LS

I would say almost none of them. Driven by 30-50 year old women in yoga pants driving their kids around. It's pretty obvious when a vehicle is a rental (rental Suburbans and Tahoes generally aren't LTZ trim) and Uber and livery ones are usually black, driver is wearing a suit, etc. The vehicles I see every day are clearly private vehicles being driven by parents.

Cars cost a lot now. I've always been interested in the same sorts of cars so I know what they cost. 98 LS400 was $58,000 loaded. My 13 GS350 was more than that, lacking one $3,000 package. 04 LS430 was $67,000 completely loaded. My 15 LS460 AWD almost base was $79,000. An LS460 optioned like that LS430 would be $88k or so.

People thinking this $100k is such a huge barrier are thinking with a decade+ old mindset. A well equipped 740i is $93,000. That was a $70,000 car 15 years ago. S550 modestly equipped is $105,000. That was a $75-80k car 15 years ago.

A loaded Explorer or Jeep Grand Cherokee? $60,000. That was $40k. My loaded ES300 was $39k in 2003. Now it's $50k.

Here's the interesting thing though, despite being much more expensive the lease payment on my LS460 ($950, which admittedly is an excellent lease) is less than my 98 LS was ($1,014) despite costing $20,000 more. Much cheaper than the LS430 was ($1,150). Adjusted for inflation my lease payment on the 460 is WAY less. Why? Well residuals are way higher, money factors way lower, and the gap between the cap cost and the MSRP is way larger in the 460.

Makes me wonder, what's going to happen when rates go up and these MFs stop being .0007 lol

situman

Higher incentives, driving down profits and margins. Will be a problem for the entire industry though.

S2000toIS350

Why would rates go up?

the economy is growing at a 0.7% annual rate (basically no growth) and the POTUS wants exports to increase (to do this you want a cheap dollar and increased interest rates cause the dollar to be more expensive as foreign money flows into the US to put money to work at the higher interest rates).

SW17LS

Rates eventually have to go up

S2000toIS350

Rates will go up when the economy has wind it's sails, and that ain't any time soon

yellin has tried to will the rates up by moving up the Rates at the Fed and she will be enjoying her time post Fed in the near future

SW17LS

But eventually, the economy will start growing and rates will go up. Issue is consumers are accustomed to really low rates and it's allowed us to consume things at price points that we wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. It will be interesting to see what happens when a returning leasee comes back and realizes the same deal now costs him several hundred dollars more a month...what does that consumer do? Do they swallow it and pay it? Do they downgrade and drive less for the same money? Do they buy the lease out and keep what they have?

And rates have gone up somewhat already.

Johnhav430

Promise I'm not that nosey, but I know every car in a huge radius from our home, from walking our dog, and I have seen people have 4 different cars, sometimes the exact same one over 4 generations--now I assume these are leases that are turned in every 3 years. I have seen many downgrade....I don't know the motivation but I assume to lower expenses....right now we don't have any car payments but we have daycare which imho is huge so we need to keep it that way....so I do think car payments are a consideration for an avg. joe so to speak....

SW17LS

Yeah that's the point, a lot of people come back and they lease the same model and the payment might go up a little. My question is what happens after 10 years or so of really low money factors which make it cheaper than it used to be to lease an expensive car, if that suddenly changes.

In the 90s, a $60,000 car was $1000 a month. Now that $60,000 car is $500-700 depending on the manufacturer. The reason why is rates, back then 6-7% was a good rate on a car. Now people are shocked if they see anything over 2.9%. Leases run off money factors which are interest rates. My LS was a .0007 MF, that's a 1.68% rate. My Sedona was .00001, that's 0.024%, basically interest free. What happens when a good lease is .0025? That's 6%. HUGE impact on the payment.

So guy comes in, 3 years ago his 540i was $700. Now it's $1000. What does he do?

For instance my ES350 lease was $615 in 2010. Now that's a good lease on a GS. That's how quickly lease costs have dropped.

BrownPride

This move is fine by me. The 6er Gran Coupe is better looking and more practical too (albeit marginally).

No BMW 2-door should be a big boat, except for an S-class coupe competitor. We know that'll be the forthcoming 8-series, so there is no need for the 6er coupe. Bring it back BMW when you decide to create a 911/AMG GT competitor for once.

UDel

Not really surprising, 6 series is too expensive for what you get and coupes can be a tough sell. I have only seen 2 or 3 6 series coupes on the road and not a single S class coupe on the road. Even for BMW and Mercedes they are priced too high to get any kind of decent sales.

RNM GS3

BMW is repositioning the 6series in the market.

The 8 series will be introduced shortly as the New large luxury coupe while the new 6 will be made more of a rival for 911, MB GTS, Jag Ftype.

SW17LS

I've seen several S Class coupes on the road here, affluent area. It's just always going to. E a niche vehicle.