Johnhav430

Does owning a Kubota count?

Right now, the price is actually about 20 cents more than regular, not as bad as it has been, when it was higher than premium. Premium is an issue in itself, but it seems the warehouse club is the way to get it (paid $2.399 for 93 on Thu., regular is $2.659 near my house....

Price really matters, which is why some cars now tout being able to use 87. I thought that one of the pluses long ago was that a diesel had mechanical FI and generally lasted forever. but today, many people are only looking to get 3/36 before getting a new car...

Toys4RJill

I do agree with you. I remember I was with a client one day. We decided to take his car for some reason. It was a Diesel Audi. We had to visit five different gas stations to final find a pump.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I've had experience with diesels, especially Mercedes Benz OM617's (both I-5 turbo and non turbo), OM603's and OM606 (I-6 non turbo and turbo). This is in both Mercedes sedans and coupes from the 70's-90's as well as their G-Wagens with original diesel engines from '79 to early 90's models (import only).

Also 2010's era Jetta TDI's which were nice little cars. Suffice it to say that every brand new diesel engine available today is going to be exponentially superior and more livable than anything really old that I've mentioned above-- some of those old Benz diesel engines apart from the 603 and 606 being downright agricultural. And still, some of those cruder examples have their place for the hardcore in off-road machines. They will never be as clean as a new engine but running diesel particulate filters on them does wonders to clean up their dirty exhaust.

In comparison, the current Benz Bluetec diesels, BMW turbodiesels and VW TDI's in SUVs and passenger cars are light years ahead. I am sure that Toyota's diesels are also but they are far and few between to even find in the USA unless older examples were specially imported under the 25 year rule.

Diesels aren't for everyone of course but they are for some who would like the option from the factory. It at least makes more sense in heavy duty applications and at that well below the spec of a fully decked out full size dually contractor's pickup truck with a Cummins engine.

On the note of school busses, you've definitely got a point there. Probably even with the newer ones.

Sometimes massive torque and better fuel economy is better in an SUV or truck. There have always been plenty of powerful gasoline engine options in SUVs and trucks.

^^ This. See the Toyota Hilux and Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70 series and the lack of both in the US market. See also the still relevant popularity in the U.S. of the Land Cruiser FJ80 series despite the extremely thirsty 4.5L I6 engine.

What is being offered isn't the spec potential customers were asking for. People will find alternatives to get what they want and some will endeavor to swap in a diesel if they want one. I know that some Toyota FJ Cruiser owners take on an expensive 1KD-FTV four cylinder turbodiesel engine swap with as much as 170hp and 270 ft lbs in stock tune and much better fuel economy. These are common rail and direct injection.

Realistic diesel options from Toyota in this country haven't existed for a very, very long time and so there aren't any relevant failed business cases from them to point to that suggest people wouldn't buy diesel Toyotas.

^^ THIS, exactly. And if the Supra MKIV had been marketed this way in the United States or any other export market it would have almost the same reputation as the 1992-2000 SC300 series which lacked the more powerful and out of the box tune-friendly turbocharged engine, stronger manual transmission and limited slip differential options of its Japan-market sister vehicle the Soarer. The only difference would have been the Supra name still carrying with it more history and expectation on the part of buyers.

Toyota did well selling their Land Cruisers in the 90's with gasoline I-6 and gasoline V8 engines but they still never offered a diesel engine in the first place. And currently they still don't in the biggest and most bloated Land Cruiser they've ever made.

Funny though how only until very recently Japan and other markets got updated versions of the classic FJ70 Land Cruiser alongside the newer, less rugged Land Cruiser designs. Sure, some regulations play a part in excluding those from same in the USA but the offerings couldn't be more night and day and targeted at different kinds of buyers in nearly every other world market EXCEPT the United States. You could order those FJ70 Series SUVs with turbo-diesels.

At this point it is what it is because diesel engine are gradually getting less emphasis anyway. As of 2017 global emissions regulations are quickly curtailing further diesel development from most manufacturers so with only a few exceptions this is all going to be a moot point in a few years anyway. I can't argue with the reasons this is the case. It's just that I still don't see much being done to replace the benefits of turbodiesels in serious off-road vehicle applications yet. I also see few real replacements when it comes to most large SUVs intended for city use.

Probably better hybrid-electic systems will replace the massive torque benefit and somewhat contribute to better fuel economy in big framed vehicles. Still, it completely depends on how such systems are designed and programmed such that they will be able to take the off-road abuse diesels are famous for not to mention their longevity.

geko29

As a current owner of a 335d, this confuses me. Over the past 12 months, the least I've paid for Diesel is $2.07, and the most $2.55. 2/3 of my fillups have been for $2.39 or less. During that time, the premium that our Lexus requires has almost never been less than $3. Probably $3.09 most frequently, but sometimes close to $4. Diesel prices seem to fluctuate less than gas in Illinois at least, so occasionally regular 87 drops below diesel. But premium never even comes close.

Combine that with my 29mpg average (was 31 prior to the tune) vs. my wife's 17 (which is also what the gasoline 335i averages), and my cost per mile is quite a bit less than half of hers. With literally double the torque.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I have a Mercedes Sprinter Bluetec, and yes it is light years ahead of old diesels, but I doubt it will last anywhere near as long as these old diesels with mechanical fuel pump and simple exhaust system. I'm not sure if Toyota has any diesels that have SCR system or even modern injection system that allows for quiet operation.

mmarshall

In Toronto? I thought that both diesel cars and diesel-fuel stations were more common north of the border than here in the U.S.

Toys4RJill

Same as the US. Diesel vehicles are not anymore popular.

SW17LS

Every gas station here has diesel.

mmarshall

That must be something peculiar to your specific town or part of Montgomery County. While it is true that low-sulfur diesel fuel is relatively widely available in the rest of the D.C. suburbs, one certainly cannot say that most parts of the D.C. area offer it at every station. From what I've seen, they don't.....but, to be honest, I'm not in Maryland that often anymore, except to visit friends, help someone car-shop at a MD dealership (sometimes the Fitz Way LOL) or do an (occasional) review at a dealership there.

SW17LS

I drive all over the area, I see diesel available almost at every station, including in Northern VA, I might suggest that you just aren't taking notice whether the stations around you have diesel.

Aron9000

Most stations in Nashville have diesel fuel. But then again we love our pickup trucks around here, so there might be more of a demand for the stuff than in some place like urban Toronto where a big diesel pickup would take up half the block to park on the street.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

The Sprinter Bluetecs are very nice work vans. I like those. You're right about the lingering question of longevity with the new Benz CDI diesels. First, they haven't been in service for long enough to compare them to their 70's-90's predecessors but definitely with less complexity you will get longer longevity and easier service. There is a reason that a couple of their older I-5 and I-6 diesel designs are driven up to a million miles or more with their lack of many electronics, sensors, no ECUs and with their mechanical injection pumps. A friend of mine has converted an I-6 donor engine to a mechanical IP for his old diesel truck for this reason.

If I recall correctly I think there were a couple of V-6 or I-5 CDI Benz engines in the last 15 years that didn't have a perfect track record but the more recent Benz diesel engines are supposed to be better again... albeit as complex as you would expect them to be.

I'm not aware of what Toyota has currently done with SCR systems or updated injection beyond common rail and some variant of their D4 that works on their light passenger diesel I4's and V6's. Their Hino commercial vehicles are probably first in line. They would need both to federalize a diesel for this market. Toyota will probably need those updates soon for their existing light passenger diesel markets anyway but I am sure they are watching the changing regulatory landscape for diesels in Europe very closely.

...

In Los Angeles I usually see a diesel pump at most major gas stations. It's not every one of them but there are plenty in this city. The phone app Gas Buddy is a good way to find available stations and their fairly recent pricing without driving around too much to find one that sells diesel. From what I'm reading about though it sounds like this is one of the exceptional markets for diesel availability away from major highways.

SW17LS

Except that the modern diesels don't stink.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

friend's sprinter diesel had a failure where the entire urea tank dumped through the exhaust system at once, requiring the entire exhaust system to be replaced (fortunately under warranty, but took MONTHS to get the parts).
hope that never happens to you!

Johnhav430

My impression of the 335d is that it's generally unreliable. And for me, it didn't come in a stick.

It doesn't have to be unreliable, as diesels in theory far outlast their gas counterparts. This doesn't seem to be in practice, however

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1257557