Oldmanb777

Let me say right off, this has been an interesting fun thread. The different perspectives and very good perspectives on money management, interesting for sure. So my 2 pennies worth. To start, I subscribe to Mr Money Mustache, and maybe Suzie Orman, and Harry Dent. So I'm pretty conservative money wise. I usually let some else cover the initial depreciation. We BOUGHT new this time. Only second time in our lives we have bought new. I really looked at leasing. It's just really expensive when you keep a car well after its paid for. However, we really wanted the Range Rover, we would have leased it. I would not want a European car of ANY kind after the warrantee was over. However a domestic or Oriental car is another matter. Keeping one of those in the stable after warrantee isn't much of an issue. Will we keep the GX for ever, probably not as long as we have in the past. We are older, and have saved/invested/worked hard enough to have a nest egg that will allow us to replace a car whenever we want. Will we lease in the future? not sure. sometimes it make sense, but still the numbers make it a very costly luxury. Money that could be better spent on a trip to the Galapagos or what ever. Just figure, if it was a good deal for you, someone isn't making a living off you, therefore they wouldn't offer it. since they push leasing, it must be pretty profitable, FOR THEM, or they wouldn't offer it. Someone must be providing that profit, that someone is YOU!

ttsport15

Oriental ...You really show your age thr....lol

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

I have heard that for a while too.

anyway, no problem with modding a leased car as well. Most of mods people done now are bolt-ons anyway, so I don't see any problem to put them on, and take them off when return the car, also can sell the parts off at a little loss.

Johnhav430

On the Lexus, paid cash, it's a 2006, no need to borrow or lease. If I would have gotten a new M2 like I had wanted, I would have put 50% down and financed 36 mos. @ 1.49 at the time.

I think leasing goes back to the notion that possession is 9/10 of the law. But I don't think so myself. You are not free to drive this vehicle as you want (miles), and you must maintain and pay taxes on something you don't own, and there are bogus fees attached. How many people do you know who have had to "downsize?" So it's not just with cars, it's with homes, boats, investment properties, etc. They can't really deal with the monthly anymore, and need to reduce it.

I kinda subscribe to the Suze way, but cheat a little. She says never buy a new car, and never finance more than 36 mos., and never, ever, ever, ever, lease. That rubs people the wrong way since now on luxury cars leasing is the majority.

It's a game sometimes, but it really, is not. If your goal is to leave the most to your children, and charity, when you pass on, what would you do? But this isn't the goal for many anymore, they want to leave with a $0 balance. If the latter is the case, there is a lot to be enjoyed in life, and less need to be frugal imho...

SW17LS

My issue with people who tout Suze Orman or any of these other "gurus" is that they don't understand there is not only one way forward. You do not have to deny yourself things you want in order to be able to be financially responsible, you just have to be realistic about what you want, make sure you really want that and make choices. You can't do it all. There are things I would "like" to have, I'd like to have a boat. I'd like to buy a vacation home, I'd like to have a huge primary home. However, I don't "really want" this things, so I prioritize what I truly do want. I would be unhappy driving an older car, I would be unhappy keeping a car a long time...so I don't do that. Whatever car I buy or how I buy it does not impact my ability to invest and save, I don't know if I just make a lot more money than most people were talking about, but I really don't think that's the case.

What I am not going to do is work hard and earn a great living to live like a pauper so money can build up someplace and be left over when I die. I don't understand that. My kids will have every opportunity in life, great upbringing, loving parents, great experiences, great education...but they will then need to go make their own way in the world. That's how it was for me, my parents generation made their own way without many of the benefits I had when I was a kid. They'll inherit what's there when we're gone but hopefully that will be after they're already adults and are already on their way towards building their own lives and security.

Charity? I have my own problems lol. Sorry to be selfish, but I have one life and I'm going to live it for my family and for myself first.

What I don't understand is if you're never going to spend any money, what's the point of saving all this money to just sit there? So you can not work? I'm going to be retired at some point also, on track for that. If you're not spending any money, what are you going to do when you're retired?

Johnhav430

I agree with the above 100%. The problem is, how to skin such a cat. If my 3 y.o. gets into an Ivy League school (legacy ain't what it used to be), problems are over, it's so cheap. I honestly feel that a new BMW M2 (I "want" a M3 sedan but was going to settle for a M2) is justifiable, and I do want it. In the end, I caved, and bought a 2006 LS430 cash. Stop right there--you have stated you wouldn't want older cars as a personal preference--you likely had one when it was brand new or a couple years old. Financially, that's a big difference already in what we would spend.

I scratch my head--when day care is $1,000+/mo., and the mortgage is maybe 3X that and property tax is also a multiple of that per mo (although we're on our own no escrow), and a family makes xxx,xxx/yr., the math simply does not add up. If a family made x,xxx,xxx like some of my friends, it still doesn't add up. WTH does a 47' Sea Ray come from, even if it is used? My dad would explain to me, you may have a similar salary to someone else, but you came from different upbringings/family trees. Suddenly, it does matter if $300/mo. can be saved here, $250/mo. there, etc. But I do think, ok, scratch charity, that's not as huge as giving to one's children. If that could be scratched? Heck I'd buy that nice 760M I sat in this weekend. And if I didn't like it, I'd trade it in for a S63 AMG that my coworker has.

You may laugh, but I saved $68/mo. on the cell phone bill, and felt happy

edit even this forum is interesting and I truly believe there's no right, no wrong. Someone posted pics of his new Lambo.

situman

While it is true that owning, at the end it is yours and it has a residual value of a few thousand dollars when it comes to trade in or sell. Perhaps $3k-$5k after 10 yrs and one has to ask themselves, how much did they spend in repairs, oil changes and the not so fun joy of driving an old car. Is that avg $300 to $500 per yr of residual value enough to go against leasing? Also, what happens after an accident, what would happen to your residual value or any value of your car? Besides, who is to say you can't still buy the car outright if you like it after the lease if the car is problem free and you love it?

situman

Screw it im going to lease a certified used assuming it has no problems. Best compromise between leasing or buying new.

Johnhav430

This is interesting because we come from different aspects of Lexus. Myself, the third gen LS. The demographic there for how many paid cash, how many financed, how many leased, would be very different, not only because of the ages of the vehicles, but the reason for buying them. One of the reliability surveys that was just posted, showed the car as 100/100 for reliability, with an Acura TSX scoring 91.4/100, a Honda CR-V 85.4/100, and a Audi A4 as 0/100. Dunno if the LS is an anomaly just because it's so reliable....but some people, myself included, are driving an old car because the price came down, yet it's supposed to be very reliable....

mmarshall

I've listened to some of Susie's presentations. She does not impress me....she seems to try and use the classic powers of persuasion that don't always work in today's complex financial world and record-low interest rates. I won't call her a fraud (some people have, but I won't go that far...that's not my judgement to make)...but, to me, she sounds like a smooth-talking saleslady with at least some snake oil.



Well, by not over-spending earlier, I'm able to enjoy now, in retirement, some things I did not have earlier.....like yes, a new Lacrosse. I could go on a vacation if I wanted to, but I'm not a big one for expensive travel.

Note.....I said by not OVER-spending, not for necessarily being a Scrooge.

ttsport15

What I am not going to do is work hard and earn a great living to live like a pauper so money can build up someplace and be left over when I die. I don't understand that. My kids will have every opportunity in life, great upbringing, loving parents, great experiences, great education...but they will then need to go make their own way in the world. That's how it was for me, my parents generation made their own way without many of the benefits I had when I was a kid. They'll inherit what's there when we're gone but hopefully that will be after they're already adults and are already on their way towards building their own lives and security.


Ditto.....Funny story I work with a guy he's 61 totally out of shape etc he was looking to transfer his annuity ( 500k) into another acct but he filed the wrong paper work so they deposited the 500k into his checking - the tax 90k ...Now this guy goes nuts he owns his home has 2 grown sons laying around like piles of greasy rags and insists they put the money back ...which they do..

Johnhav430

500k at 61, that would be tough if he wants to live through 80+, and he has a decent lifestyle. Who wants to live like a pauper? But it's interesting to overspend in many facets too. There's also a reverse mortgage generation, and they ain't spring chickens, they could be 70-80 right here, right now. It's their decision.

Johnhav430

I don't really watch her, merely remember her never lease presentation. It's been pulled, probably because of car mfg. sponsorship. But what is it that you think she's selling, besides free advice, which tends to be conservative? You mean just touting herself? Another one that caught me is if you don't have 1 mil. in your 401k by age 50, you better start figuring out why not and do what you can about it (which is not much). One would hope that folks who drive Lexus don't even have to think about that.

patgilm

As it relates to taxes on leases, this is not a one size fits all. In NY you all are lucky enough to not have to pay taxes on the full purchase price. In MD we pay full taxes on the purchase price on the day you lease the car. This is really disadvantageous trying to use Swapalease which for me would be perfect because I would love to just do a bunch of short term leases but for us in MD we have to pay full taxes on the fair value of the vehicle when it is registered which could be thousands each time you swap. In NY it would be a no brainer for me.

As for leasing vs. buying, I do both. For my daily driver I get tired of cars every couple of years so I like to lease as I get to drive a new car every three years. It would be perfect if I could get a lease for 2 years but the terms are usually terrible for that short of a lease. For my non-daily drivers I usually buy since I typically try to keep them longer and like to mod them.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Ouch, I didn't realize other states had a different lease tax policies. Good to know.