mmarshall

Today's Cadillacs don't impress me. The Lacrosse, particularly with the 18" wheels, gives me more of what I'm looking for (comfort, quietness), than even the CT6.

mmarshall

Yep......reminds me of my big Electra 225 when I was in college. Too bad Buick (and GM) quality tanked in the 1970s...and stayed that way for almost 40 years.

Toys4RJill

I dont get the bashing of Buick over the window stitches not having auto up on just one of the windows. And technically it's not exactly cost cutting as the Envision is a first year model, therefore it never had the auto up on all four windows to begin with. So how is cost cutting of it next had it?

And might I add to everyone driving their current Lexus models and even myself with my Toyota model, Lexus currently has how many drivetrains and platforms that are dating back to 2006 or 2007. The LS460 is essentially the same car as it was in 2007, Lexus even went so far as to reskin the whole thing but they left the doors intact. The current ES has an engine that dates back to the 2005 introduction​ of the Toyota Avalon. Lexus LX570 is how old really? But good thing they all have auto up on all four windows right?

And where are such model luxury or options? such as Auto start stop, a modern rear hatch for the GX or LX, Android Audio or Apple Car Play, perhaps active grille shutters, etc etc. My father's own ES went totally el-cheapo on the rear trunk hinges. They also sure cost cut out some of the plastic engine coverings on some models. So Toyota/Lexus does do it too..

Now, as for the Envision. The biggest issue for me is that it is built in China. That to me is a big disrespect for the American people as GM could of easily just built it in the United States. I don't care of it is well built or poorly built or if it does not pass a smell test. GM should of made it in America.

mmarshall

Some people simply dislike the Buick nameplate, associating it (often falsely) with Grandma and Grandpa. They will hunt for imaginary stones to toss if they cannot find real ones.

In some ways, that's actually a very good thing, IMO. By now, they have been perfected and quite reliable. I'm not one of those who believe that designs have to continually change or die.

There, I agree GM should provide deactivation switches, but the auto-start/stop systems used on the latest Buicks and Chevies are already some of the smoothest-operating ones in the business. And the ones with the new 9-speed automatic next year are rumored to be even smoother, as that transmission was designed for start/stop from the outset. These systems can, though, place an extra stress on batteries and starter-motors......something that does concern me, though not necessarily a deal-breaker.

If Trump gets the import-tax he wants on vehicles sold here that are not built here, GM may have to bring Envision production back home (if it is not dropped, period). Its price will be forced up significantly, and sales will dry up.

SW17LS

I'm not bashing Buick, this is just an example of one of the things that they're lacking if they want to really be a premium nameplate. Little stuff like this, using fake wood trim stubbornly, etc.

mmarshall

I, for one, could care less if the wood-tone trim in a vehicle was synthetic or came from a real tree....in fact, though I don't consider myself a tree-hugger by any means, given the way the world's forests are being decimated, the fake stuff may actually be better in some ways. I've seen both real and fake stuff that, IMO, looked excellent, and both real and fake stuff that looked like s***. (the new Lacrosse, BTW, which I ordered, has what IMO is some pretty good-looking fake stuff, although it's a little more gloss-polished that I'd prefer...I especially like the matte-finish).

Same with leather. I fully-understand the attraction that some people have towards smell-good leather seats, particularly the nice, soft-feel leather used in Lexus and Jaguar products, and I respect that view. Jaguar, in particular, made its reputation, years ago, on fine wood and leather in its products. But, as I personally see it, it's a needless waste of animal life, real leather is often not as durable as synthetic, needs periodic treatments, can crack in the sun, can be slippery unless it has a rough suede (Alcantra) finish, and, of course, costs more. On the new Lacrosse, Essence and Premium Trim-levels come with real leather...one more reason why I stayed with the Preferred level. Lexus, in particular, deserves credit for developing one of the best alternatives to real leather that I have ever seen...the NuLuxe material. I was amazed the first time I sat on it and felt it......in the CT200h, when it debuted. It could probably have fooled a professional leather-tanner. I'd like to see Buick adopt the NuLuxe (though my guess is that Lexus probably has a patent on it)....or go back to offering the soft velour seating they had a few decades ago. I always liked those velour seats.....but they went out of style.

dseag2

You brought up memories. My mom had a '67 Buick Electra Coupe, white with a navy vinyl top. It always had rust around the vinyl top area, but even as a young child I polished that thing within an inch of its life. I drove it during high school. Blue vinyl interior. I drove it until my dad got a '73 Pontiac Grand Am. Then the Electra wasn't that interesting.

Johnhav430

My uncle had a '76 LeSabre, and I thought he was cool, driving with one hand on the wheel, and the other with a cigarette out the window. The car had everything power which I thought was also cool, delay wipers, a/c, power windows and locks. I have a memory of the cigarette smoke and Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street going down the turnpike. 350-V8 and for some reason I want to say 2 bbl....

dseag2

Ahhh, Baker Street!

mmarshall

While I respect your view, I didn't quite see it that way. The Electras of the 1960s were, IMO, some of the best luxury cars that America has ever produced.....and I didn't change my mind just because of the '73 Grand Am. In fact, when one compares the '73 GM mid-sized cars to the previous-generation '68-'72s, the '73s, IMO, were notably cheapened inside and out, had more squeaks and rattles, lost some of the good looks, and had worse-running engines due to detuning and leaner carburators.

I'd love to have a restored '65-70 Electra today (driving them was like a magic carpet), but they are just too big and impractical for the everyday traffic and parking conditions I face today. The new Lacrosse I'm waiting for, as Buick's current sedan flagship, will be as big for me as is practical today.

dseag2

We are all entitled to our own views. The Grand Am was the first domestic sedan that actually tried to compete with the Europeans. I believe it was the first domestic car with front bucket seats. Yes, it fell apart. The genuine "Crossfire Mahogany" wood peeled off the dash, but the 4 barrel carb 400 was fast for its time and the engine lasted forever. My dad gave his '73 Grand Am to my cousin and her husband in the 80's and it kept going even with all the interior parts falling off!

mmarshall

Bucket seats went back at least to the to the early 1960s....possibly earlier. My 1964 Plymouth Barracuda, a pony car, had them....as did the world-famous Mustang that year.

As for the first domestic sedan to try and compete with the Europeans, that title would probably go to the early-60s Chevy Corvair (yeah, the car Ralph Nader loved to pan LOL), with its rear-mounted air-cooled engine and squirrelly-handling swing-axle suspension, that tried to imitate VW designs of the period.

When the Grand Am debuted in the fall of 1972, as a 1973 model, some auto pundits of the time tried to call it a replacement for the then-dying GTO, but, aside from the engine, I didn't see much comparison. Nor were the Pontiac 6000 STE models of the 1980s a true replacement. The true GTO replacement, of course, did not come out until 2004, on the Australian-designed Holden chassis with the GM powertrain. But nobody actually bought it.....because they thought it looked too much like a rental car. (I didn't agree with that rental-car view, BTW.....I had a lot of respect for it, even more so when they added the two-hood scoops for 2005, like the original 60s GTO had).

Toys4RJill

Just thought I would mention a friendly post that Buick USA has now upped the discount for the LaCrosse from 16% to 17%.

geko29

Incorrect. The reason no one bought the GTO is because dealers insisted on inflating the price, expecting that rich nostalgic baby boomers would pay any price to re-live their childhood. They were sorely mistaken.

SW17LS

And IMHO there was nothing nostalgic about the car but the nameplate. Their strategy may have worked otherwise.

Look at the Camaro, or the Challenger, or the Challenger...and look at the GTO...