(RUMOR Japanese Magazine has article that says) Lexus is canceling the GS line.
03-16-17, 03:40 PM
#61
I think Lexus is more of a reactionary company when it comes to on board technology and is stubborn about updates. We see many competitors aggressively keeping up with changes(Apple and android systems) as well as meaningful updates to current NAV systems have at no charge. My '13 GS has been as buggy as can be with things like Pandora, text messaging and of course Lexus won't upgrade maps without writing a check. I think maybe because of the traditional audience that buys their cars they don't feel the pressure to keep up but after 4 of these I am finding out by shopping around how far behind they are. While they may feel the "spindle" grill is all that and a bag of chips the only thing I can say fairly is that it is very polarizing. If they think that will attract younger buyers they better get their head in the game with the rest of it, like technology and updates that are meaningful. Tesla is fueling that movement and others are getting on board.
YMMV
JTMav
YMMV
JTMav
The spindle being polarizing has nothing to do with a younger buyer wanting more tech in their infotainment, or what level of tech is acceptable.
With half of IS sales being F-Sport, its safe to assume that Lexus' bet to bring in on average younger buyers is working. Of course the tech needs to be there but its definitely not the same as tech.
03-16-17, 05:47 PM
#63
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The spindle being polarizing has nothing to do with a younger buyer wanting more tech in their infotainment, or what level of tech is acceptable.
With half of IS sales being F-Sport, its safe to assume that Lexus' bet to bring in on average younger buyers is working. Of course the tech needs to be there but its definitely not the same as tech.
With half of IS sales being F-Sport, its safe to assume that Lexus' bet to bring in on average younger buyers is working. Of course the tech needs to be there but its definitely not the same as tech.
JTMav
03-16-17, 06:35 PM
#64
The three different suspension setups have been on the GS since the introduction of the 4GS in 2012. It's not a 4 versus 4.5 thing.
The IS has 3 different setups since 3IS intro. The base 250/200t/300/350 have one setup. The F Sport 250/200t/300 have a stiffened up "sport" suspension. The 350 F Sport has AVS.
The IS has 3 different setups since 3IS intro. The base 250/200t/300/350 have one setup. The F Sport 250/200t/300 have a stiffened up "sport" suspension. The 350 F Sport has AVS.
Two years ago, my local Lexus service department did a thorough analysis of chassis numbers and part numbers for a friend's original 2013 GS350 Luxury, my 2015 GS350 Luxury, and a 2015 GS350 F Sport.
The parts depo found that only the front shock absorbers on my 2015 GS350 had different part numbers to the original 2013 GS350 Luxury, and that explained why the origial friend's car had a floatier ride.
The front shockies have different part number for left and right.
Meanwhile, the coil springs, rear shock absorbers, and front and rear sway bars had exactly the same part numbers!
At a cost of a few thousand dollars, I swapped for the original 2013 front shockies, and got a much better, albeit floatier ride, though I still find the front coil springs [which have the same part number] too terse/non-compliant, esp compared to the old 2015 E Class Mercedes.
Believe it or not, the 2015 Luxury and F Sports have the same part numbers for springs, shockies and roll bars; only the wheels, tires, and rear wheel steering was different.
03-16-17, 07:15 PM
#65
Lead Lap
I thought it was the E Class who is normally the top seller in this segment.
In other words, the mass midsize luxury market actually prefers a softer ride.
Only enthusiasts prefer a firmer ride, but enthusiasts are only a small niche group.
Why not have the best of both worlds by having two completely different sets of suspensions settings?
A normally soft setting for mainstream buyers, and a firm setting for F Sport buyers?
Presently if I'm not wrong, the 4GS has only the one suspension setting [per engine type], and the F Sport simply has sportier rims and sportier tires, plus rear wheel steering...
In other words, the mass midsize luxury market actually prefers a softer ride.
Only enthusiasts prefer a firmer ride, but enthusiasts are only a small niche group.
Why not have the best of both worlds by having two completely different sets of suspensions settings?
A normally soft setting for mainstream buyers, and a firm setting for F Sport buyers?
Presently if I'm not wrong, the 4GS has only the one suspension setting [per engine type], and the F Sport simply has sportier rims and sportier tires, plus rear wheel steering...
The real issue IMO is to offer vehicles people want to drive at costs they can fathom.
If you want to move units, leave the ES where it is. Dont need to do spruce up much since at its price point its the best value in class.
If you want to move double the units in the RWD Sedan dep, offer something unique, something car buyers from Lexus and other brands have yet to experience.
Incorporate some performance hybrid tech deck the interior out like the new LS, and then offer a real GSF (I dont mean shove a V8 that is down on power) if and only if the non F models are a success. Offer tech people are craving for but without the assistance of Apple or Google if thats a hinderance. Maybe design a coupe or GT model.
All while being relatively reliable and affordable.
Done
03-16-17, 07:43 PM
#66
All of you keep treating this GS hiatus tidbit, as if it is "just a rumor". I'll have you know, that the next generation GS is no longer part of the product plan for Lexus car and CUV full model change programmes through 2020. I say this as someone that has access to Toyota development codes for Lexus models and the GS is not on there at all. The 7ES is being developed under code "240B" and has a scheduled date of October 2018, on GA-K platform.
I started 5GS discussion last spring (pretty much nonexistent then) and now it has ended up culminating in this terrible information, so considering what I have seen, it's not far-fetched. To have spent money on a refresh and have it do so badly in sales, I expected this to happen. The next IS is even already confirmed and so is that of the next NX. The next RX isn't due until 2021. We'll see what happens.
I started 5GS discussion last spring (pretty much nonexistent then) and now it has ended up culminating in this terrible information, so considering what I have seen, it's not far-fetched. To have spent money on a refresh and have it do so badly in sales, I expected this to happen. The next IS is even already confirmed and so is that of the next NX. The next RX isn't due until 2021. We'll see what happens.
03-16-17, 08:16 PM
#67
All of you keep treating this GS hiatus tidbit, as if it is "just a rumor". I'll have you know, that the next generation GS is no longer part of the product plan for Lexus car and CUV full model change programmes through 2020. I say this as someone that has access to Toyota development codes for Lexus models and the GS is not on there at all. The 7ES is being developed under code "240B" and has a scheduled date of October 2018, on GA-K platform.
I started 5GS discussion last spring (pretty much nonexistent then) and now it has ended up culminating in this terrible information, so considering what I have seen, it's not far-fetched. To have spent money on a refresh and have it do so badly in sales, I expected this to happen. The next IS is even already confirmed and so is that of the next NX. The next RX isn't due until 2021. We'll see what happens.
I started 5GS discussion last spring (pretty much nonexistent then) and now it has ended up culminating in this terrible information, so considering what I have seen, it's not far-fetched. To have spent money on a refresh and have it do so badly in sales, I expected this to happen. The next IS is even already confirmed and so is that of the next NX. The next RX isn't due until 2021. We'll see what happens.
03-16-17, 09:58 PM
#68
I also forgot to mention, the 2018 GX will be a big refresh and no redesign in place until at least 2020 or 2021 (more rectangular headlights). It will be introduced in RHD, for the Japanese Domestic Market as GX400. The LX, if staying body-on-frame, will debut TNGA-F for the Lexus brand in 2019.
03-16-17, 10:29 PM
#69
The Camry does use an application of TNGA-K developed under 010B, which programme code "240B" will use an application of sans the "TN" in TNGA. The 950A programme LC (Z100) and 200B programme LS use TNGA-L, but are called GA-L for Lexus products. I am not aware of drivetrain details, but only information limited to programme code, platform, scheduling, and model name. The car is reportedly much more luxurious though and "stunning". One would hope a longitudinally-mounted engine with permanent AWD would be the case, but I doubt that is what has been signed off. Likely still transverse, but we'll see what happens. Anyone shown that car, saw a fibreglass mock-up at most. I haven't seen it.
I also forgot to mention, the 2018 GX will be a big refresh and no redesign in place until at least 2020 or 2021 (more rectangular headlights). It will be introduced in RHD, for the Japanese Domestic Market as GX400. The LX, if staying body-on-frame, will debut TNGA-F for the Lexus brand in 2019.
I also forgot to mention, the 2018 GX will be a big refresh and no redesign in place until at least 2020 or 2021 (more rectangular headlights). It will be introduced in RHD, for the Japanese Domestic Market as GX400. The LX, if staying body-on-frame, will debut TNGA-F for the Lexus brand in 2019.
Also very sad to hear that next gen 7ES to be Camry based again, with a stretched wheelbase version of the same transverse engine hanging nose heavily in front of the front axle.
Won't be much better than a nose heavy Acura RLX.
7ES is unlikely to get Lexus' 10 speed auto tranny.
The aluminium double wishbone front, and multi-link rear end will be gone [from the GS]!
Gone too is the aluminium bonnet, when competitors like E Class and 5 Series use aluminium trunk lids, aluminium doors, and other aluminium chassis components.
I've been very unimpressed with Akio Toyoda since his takeover in 2009
If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 03-16-17 at 11:58 PM.
03-17-17, 12:28 AM
#70
Pole Position
The GS just needs to be bigger, have as big a back seat as the previous generation F10 5 series
BUT, and a very important, but, it needs to stay lightweight in its segment or even lose weight compared to the current 4th Gen GS and maintain it's current handling advantage it enjoys over the Germans.
Previous GS were functional but lacked driving verve. Current generation GS is class leading in handling but lacks functionality--small back seat.
Next gen GS needs to be both : functional and German-slaying in handling.
I have high hopes for the GA-L platform that the next gen GS will be based on.
BUT, and a very important, but, it needs to stay lightweight in its segment or even lose weight compared to the current 4th Gen GS and maintain it's current handling advantage it enjoys over the Germans.
Previous GS were functional but lacked driving verve. Current generation GS is class leading in handling but lacks functionality--small back seat.
Next gen GS needs to be both : functional and German-slaying in handling.
I have high hopes for the GA-L platform that the next gen GS will be based on.
03-17-17, 01:25 AM
#71
Theoretically, I find that my 4GS has plenty of cabin length.
Problem is that those thick air con back rests rob all the rear knee room.
Furthermore, I find that the rear door mounted ashtrays rob the 4 GS of rear lateral knee space.
I find it ironic that the 4GS has no front ashtrays, yet the 4GS has two rear door armrest mounted ashtrays...
Problem is that those thick air con back rests rob all the rear knee room.
Furthermore, I find that the rear door mounted ashtrays rob the 4 GS of rear lateral knee space.
I find it ironic that the 4GS has no front ashtrays, yet the 4GS has two rear door armrest mounted ashtrays...
03-17-17, 05:55 AM
#72
Lexus Test Driver
What does Lexus expect here???
You offer the same 3.5 V6 for 10 years straight with zero update in power.
Then you introduce a half assed GSF also with a dated and well underpowered engine.
For this you charge $88k with NO OPTIONS.
Enthusiasts love to spec their cars and if im dropping close to $100k you better let me customize and not just leave it to picking whats on dealers lots.
When the current Gen came out, Lexus was going to offer a whole suite of Fsport accessories - springs, wheels, exhaust, etc.
Instead they scrapped it.
They never fully invested in this segment except for the 2GS which they let grow old and stale.
If you put a new G80 and a new GS side by side cover badges - 99% of people would say G80 is the more classy and expensive car. GS refresh styling is horrendous.
The GSF does look OK but the wheel offsets are bad and really weaken the stance of the car.
Personally i would not consider the GS at all just for the styling, Old engines and lack of customization.
You offer the same 3.5 V6 for 10 years straight with zero update in power.
Then you introduce a half assed GSF also with a dated and well underpowered engine.
For this you charge $88k with NO OPTIONS.
Enthusiasts love to spec their cars and if im dropping close to $100k you better let me customize and not just leave it to picking whats on dealers lots.
When the current Gen came out, Lexus was going to offer a whole suite of Fsport accessories - springs, wheels, exhaust, etc.
Instead they scrapped it.
They never fully invested in this segment except for the 2GS which they let grow old and stale.
If you put a new G80 and a new GS side by side cover badges - 99% of people would say G80 is the more classy and expensive car. GS refresh styling is horrendous.
The GSF does look OK but the wheel offsets are bad and really weaken the stance of the car.
Personally i would not consider the GS at all just for the styling, Old engines and lack of customization.
03-17-17, 06:05 AM
#73
Lexus Champion
Theoretically, I find that my 4GS has plenty of cabin length.
Problem is that those thick air con back rests rob all the rear knee room.
Furthermore, I find that the rear door mounted ashtrays rob the 4 GS of rear lateral knee space.
I find it ironic that the 4GS has no front ashtrays, yet the 4GS has two rear door armrest mounted ashtrays...
Problem is that those thick air con back rests rob all the rear knee room.
Furthermore, I find that the rear door mounted ashtrays rob the 4 GS of rear lateral knee space.
I find it ironic that the 4GS has no front ashtrays, yet the 4GS has two rear door armrest mounted ashtrays...
03-17-17, 06:44 AM
#74
Pole Position
If they are going with a new gen GS, definitely make it wider and a bit longer or at least lengthen the wheelbase for more legroom. The downfall of Lexus overall with be it's infotainment system. They are starting to remind me of DSLR companies where they refuse to adapt to the changing times where software, technology and convenience trumps old school photography. Sure the cars may be nice and great, but why do I have to still use my phone for proper navigation and that's with a giant nav system on the dash? I guess they need a reason to charge you $3k for something useless.
03-17-17, 07:10 AM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
IF true, it's very sad if lexus lets the GS go. the GS and SC are what made lexus an enthusiast brand (and later the IS). the SC is sort of being reborn as the LC, although the LC is much more luxurious and expensive, probably even taking inflation into account.
as we all know, dealers are generally NOT interested in selling the GS because there's not enough differentiation of it in most consumers minds with the ES even though enthusiasts know they're entirely different.
the GS450h is a pretty amazing drivetrain, that was a) too expensive, b) not promoted at all, and c) harder to find than big foot.
i've read that akio toyoda never liked the GS, and with such weak effort put into it and lack of differentiation, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that it will fail. keeping the same only engine choice for 10 years is bad enough, now the 200t is out which doesn't provide any excitement to the model and doesn't even lower the price much, AND brings it down even more in prestige toward (below?) the ES.
the whole thing's a mess. the new E300 may be a 4 cylinder turbo as well, but the market loves it, and the tech and drive are top notch.
with the new LS being very long and very luxurious, a new GS couldn't certainly go upmarket and be much better differentiated from the ES. maybe lexus could offer ONLY a hybrid version, and maybe later electric version? also, the styling should be more 'wow'. all lexus did with the 4GS is put a 'controversial' front end on an otherwise very bland design, especially looking from the side.
anyway, i hope this rumor isn't true...
as we all know, dealers are generally NOT interested in selling the GS because there's not enough differentiation of it in most consumers minds with the ES even though enthusiasts know they're entirely different.
the GS450h is a pretty amazing drivetrain, that was a) too expensive, b) not promoted at all, and c) harder to find than big foot.
i've read that akio toyoda never liked the GS, and with such weak effort put into it and lack of differentiation, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that it will fail. keeping the same only engine choice for 10 years is bad enough, now the 200t is out which doesn't provide any excitement to the model and doesn't even lower the price much, AND brings it down even more in prestige toward (below?) the ES.
the whole thing's a mess. the new E300 may be a 4 cylinder turbo as well, but the market loves it, and the tech and drive are top notch.
with the new LS being very long and very luxurious, a new GS couldn't certainly go upmarket and be much better differentiated from the ES. maybe lexus could offer ONLY a hybrid version, and maybe later electric version? also, the styling should be more 'wow'. all lexus did with the 4GS is put a 'controversial' front end on an otherwise very bland design, especially looking from the side.
anyway, i hope this rumor isn't true...
