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They could easily make the ES a $60K car, but what would they gain? No one is buying the GS for that money, no one will buy the ES either. Unless they make an LS350 or something, then maybe the whole ES with LS formula will work for them.
Non enthusiast buyers are not buying the GS because they don't see the value in the GS over the ES, and salespeople aren't selling that value. Lexus can obviously sell a $60,000 car, the issue has just always been for somebody that doesn't care about handling why would they buy a $60,000 GS when they can buy a $45,000 ES that meets and exceeds their needs?
The reason the GS did better in years past is that it was clearly better than the ES, as the ES has gotten bigger and nicer buyers make sacrifices now to go to the GS over the ES, its smaller, harder riding, etc. With the 16 refresh of the ES it's not as clearly nicer inside. That was never the case before, think of the difference between say the 2GS to the 3ES? The GS was a much better car for everybody, even a non enthusiast.
If they want the GS to be more universally appealing they should tone it down and make it sit more clearly in between the ES and LS, make it bigger (think almost SWB LS sized, like the 5 Series), make it ride better or have a version that rides better, make it a clear step above the ES inside.
Well I've owned a 13 GS since new and it has been a great car, love the driving characteristics of the model. 70k on the odo and has been pretty much bulletproof, but I won't be buying another. I agree with whoever said they are becoming cartoonish in looks, the front end is so out of proportion that it is a deal breaker for me. After owning 4 Lexus the styling is just turning me off, time to move on.
YMMV
JTMav
Here's the overall GS sales history by calendar year (not model year), loosely color coded to represent each generation. 1998 through 2001 were especially good years, but beyond that I don't totally get why it keeps getting repeated on here that "no one buys the GS" anymore. Again, it was never a hot seller and the current GS has done well, though the first two months of this year have been tough, the same can be said for all Lexus sedans. Each generation seems to hold on for a good 3-4 years, then fall.
The GS competition has been getting tougher, including new players (G80, for example). A new generation of GS could reinvigorate sales. I think it'll be delayed, but not cancelled.
Here's the overall GS sales history by calendar year (not model year), loosely color coded to represent each generation. 1998 through 2001 were especially good years, but beyond that I don't totally get why it keeps getting repeated on here that "no one buys the GS" anymore. Again, it was never a hot seller and the current GS has done well, though the first two months of this year have been tough, the same can be said for all Lexus sedans. Each generation seems to hold on for a good 3-4 years, then fall.
The GS competition has been getting tougher, including new players (G80, for example). A new generation of GS could reinvigorate sales. I think it'll be delayed, but not cancelled.
As an owner (leaser) of the current GS, I can say why it fails. Its friggin cramped and tiny in there and you do not really get a lot for the money. It isnt very luxurious feeling inside and I dont see or feel much of a difference between it and the ES. Except the ES is more comfortable. Sure the GS does handle a lot better but it doesnt make anybody feel anymore special than being an ES. They should cancel the GS, build the ES on the GAL, add AWD and call it a day. No one cares if the ES is built on the GAL or TNGA as long as Lexus makes a very solid and nice enough driving car. Only people on these forums care so much about that stuff.
Indeed it does. What the chart really shows me is that the GS, and perhaps this class, simply doesn't tolerate such a long life cycle. 5 years would be about right. Upwards of 7 is too long.
As an owner (leaser) of the current GS, I can say why it fails. Its friggin cramped and tiny in there and you do not really get a lot for the money. It isnt very luxurious feeling inside and I dont see or feel much of a difference between it and the ES. Except the ES is more comfortable. Sure the GS does handle a lot better but it doesnt make anybody feel anymore special than being an ES. They should cancel the GS, build the ES on the GAL, add AWD and call it a day. No one cares if the ES is built on the GAL or TNGA as long as Lexus makes a very solid and nice enough driving car. Only people on these forums care so much about that stuff.
I can't agree with these assessments of the interior. IMHO my luxury package GS was very luxurious feeling inside, material quality was first rate, wood trim was beautiful, had the best seats Ive ever had in a car. In a few ways it was nicer inside than my LS...
Compared to the ES, IMHO with the pre-refresh ES the difference in the interior were huge. Thats why I got the GS after having had two ES sedans, the significant step up in interior quality, I took a car with a firmer ride than I wanted to get the better interior and the better overall build quality. I can tell you that the GS feels notably more special than an ES.
Now the refresh ES has solved a lot of the interior issues I had with that generation, but its still not as nice as a GS. Had that ES been what came out for 2013 I likely would have stayed in the ES however.
Altho the actual sales #s have remained consistent from generation to generation, it is the market share that has gone down. The 3rd generation GS was the 3rd best seller in the segment for quite a while but the latest generation has fallen behind the A6, CTS & XTS (if you consider it a competitor; mags usually group it with the LS but since it has a starting price of $45k, I put it with the GS). The G80 & Continental are relatively new so hard to draw a conclusion, but so far they have been outselling the (older) GS. Granted, Lexus has blamed supply issues these past few months so perhaps the GS will move back up to the upper half of the segment.
I can't agree with these assessments of the interior. IMHO my luxury package GS was very luxurious feeling inside, material quality was first rate, wood trim was beautiful, had the best seats Ive ever had in a car. In a few ways it was nicer inside than my LS...
Compared to the ES, IMHO with the pre-refresh ES the difference in the interior were huge. Thats why I got the GS after having had two ES sedans, the significant step up in interior quality, I took a car with a firmer ride than I wanted to get the better interior and the better overall build quality. I can tell you that the GS feels notably more special than an ES.
Now the refresh ES has solved a lot of the interior issues I had with that generation, but its still not as nice as a GS. Had that ES been what came out for 2013 I likely would have stayed in the ES however.
I thought people buy sports sedans because they also drive well The ES drives like a boat and completely unworthy of fighting BMW, Mercedes,and Audi in the mid-size sports sedan segment. The GS handles better than all of them and if they made it a better looking car, would probably compete better. I hope Lexus styles the next GS more aggressively.
i thought about this a little bit more and am finding it harder to believe. If Lexus were truly canceling the GS line, why would they even bother releasing the GS-F? they just came out with it. they also just released a 200t as well
I thought people buy sports sedans because they also drive well The ES drives like a boat and completely unworthy of fighting BMW, Mercedes,and Audi in the mid-size sports sedan segment. The GS handles better than all of them and if they made it a better looking car, would probably compete better. I hope Lexus styles the next GS more aggressively.
They do, I was simply commenting that even though I like boats, the interior of the GS was nice enough to make me upgrade over the GS in response to the comment that the GS' interior is no better than the ES's.
As an owner (leaser) of the current GS, I can say why it fails. Its friggin cramped and tiny in there and you do not really get a lot for the money. It isnt very luxurious feeling inside and I dont see or feel much of a difference between it and the ES. Except the ES is more comfortable. Sure the GS does handle a lot better but it doesnt make anybody feel anymore special than being an ES. They should cancel the GS, build the ES on the GAL, add AWD and call it a day. No one cares if the ES is built on the GAL or TNGA as long as Lexus makes a very solid and nice enough driving car. Only people on these forums care so much about that stuff.
Are those FWD platforms where handling is not a priority? nose heavy weight distribution with big front overhangs and FWD proportions?
You just can't make a premium looking car with that.
At most, you get a buick, and that would be plain sad for a brand that is supposed to be premium.
people do care about handling.
My dad doesn't know chit about cars, and even he says bmw sedans ride better. It's not just about how floaty or comfy it feels in a straight line on a paved road.
If my dad is like that, countless others must be as well.
Are those FWD platforms where handling is not a priority? nose heavy weight distribution with big front overhangs and FWD proportions?
You just can't make a premium looking car with that.
At most, you get a buick, and that would be plain sad for a brand that is supposed to be premium.
people do care about handling.
My dad doesn't know chit about cars, and even he says bmw sedans ride better. It's not just about how floaty or comfy it feels in a straight line on a paved road.
If my dad is like that, countless others must be as well.
TBH, back when they launched the GS, it outhandled the last gen F10 5 series. Yet the 5 Series sold like no other. Yes generally people prefer better handling cars, but it turns out Lexus buyers dont really care as much apparently.
03-16-17, 06:23 AM
Market Share
The ES drives like a boat and completely unworthy of fighting BMW, Mercedes,and Audi in the mid-size sports sedan segment. The GS handles better than all of them and if they made it a better looking car, would probably compete better. I hope Lexus styles the next GS more aggressively.
