Is Lexus Becoming The Next Acura?
02-21-17, 04:29 PM
#151
Lexus Test Driver
Makes you wonder if the new LS will become the old RL. An obscure flagship.
The new RL barely registers in sales. It's a v6 hybrid with two electric motors driving the rear wheels for $60-$70k and 377 hp I think and no one buys them, at all. It does 0-60 as quick or quicker than the current LS and finally became slightly larger at 196 inches but they don't sell at all.
People complain that the RL is overpriced, I wonder how people will feel when a $90k V6 LS comes rolling through.
The new RL barely registers in sales. It's a v6 hybrid with two electric motors driving the rear wheels for $60-$70k and 377 hp I think and no one buys them, at all. It does 0-60 as quick or quicker than the current LS and finally became slightly larger at 196 inches but they don't sell at all.
People complain that the RL is overpriced, I wonder how people will feel when a $90k V6 LS comes rolling through.
02-21-17, 04:42 PM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
I highly doubt that lol. The LS is very well respected, very established, very high customer retention rates. It's going to be just fine.
02-21-17, 04:52 PM
#153
Lexus Test Driver
Well I say that purely from a price perspective.
Heck I think the RL hybrid, when it first came out a few years ago, based at $70k. They REALLY didn't sell. They dropped the price to $60k base, but I think it's too little and too late.
If they price it at $90k base (which many people believe, while I think that's ludicrous) I'll be the first to say that it will probably volume like the RL.
Heck I think the RL hybrid, when it first came out a few years ago, based at $70k. They REALLY didn't sell. They dropped the price to $60k base, but I think it's too little and too late.
If they price it at $90k base (which many people believe, while I think that's ludicrous) I'll be the first to say that it will probably volume like the RL.
02-21-17, 05:33 PM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
Even if they start at $90k, the LS brand strength will be enough it will do fine. I won't be a buyer, but there will be buyers.
Plenty of buyers out there that are LS loyalists that don't care about a V8. Even if it had a V8 I still wouldn't be a buyer at $90k+.
If they can sell people a 4cyl only E Class for $70k lol. Also bear in mind people are buying $66k 4cyl Inscription Volvo S90s. Volvos brand is nowhere near as strong as Lexus.
Plenty of buyers out there that are LS loyalists that don't care about a V8. Even if it had a V8 I still wouldn't be a buyer at $90k+.
If they can sell people a 4cyl only E Class for $70k lol. Also bear in mind people are buying $66k 4cyl Inscription Volvo S90s. Volvos brand is nowhere near as strong as Lexus.
02-21-17, 05:36 PM
#155
Lexus Fanatic
Makes you wonder if the new LS will become the old RL. An obscure flagship.
The new RL barely registers in sales. It's a v6 hybrid with two electric motors driving the rear wheels for $60-$70k and 377 hp I think and no one buys them, at all. It does 0-60 as quick or quicker than the current LS and finally became slightly larger at 196 inches but they don't sell at all.
People complain that the RL is overpriced, I wonder how people will feel when a $90k V6 LS comes rolling through.
The new RL barely registers in sales. It's a v6 hybrid with two electric motors driving the rear wheels for $60-$70k and 377 hp I think and no one buys them, at all. It does 0-60 as quick or quicker than the current LS and finally became slightly larger at 196 inches but they don't sell at all.
People complain that the RL is overpriced, I wonder how people will feel when a $90k V6 LS comes rolling through.
Just a technicality, Rhambler, but the RL's designation changed to RLX several years ago, with the 3rd-generation redesign. And it now comes in two versions.....the Hybrid SH-AWD you reference, and a FWD version with all-wheel-steering.
http://www.acura.com/RLX
02-21-17, 05:42 PM
#156
Lexus Test Driver
Actually the RL or RLX does 0-60 is 5 seconds according to C&D.
They thought that offering this Hybrid as a V8 alternative with actually great gas mileage would make it desirable for a "flagship" sans the V8.
I remember reading the press releases as I still had my RL and they touted the speed of this hybrid as a true V8 alternative and they priced it just slightly lower than the LS I think back in 2014, thinking it could compete. I think it originally based at $67k.
Well that hat worked out well.
They thought that offering this Hybrid as a V8 alternative with actually great gas mileage would make it desirable for a "flagship" sans the V8.
I remember reading the press releases as I still had my RL and they touted the speed of this hybrid as a true V8 alternative and they priced it just slightly lower than the LS I think back in 2014, thinking it could compete. I think it originally based at $67k.
Well that hat worked out well.
02-21-17, 05:48 PM
#157
Lexus Fanatic
But comparing the RLX to the LS is more than a little bit unfair. You're hyper focused on the engine but in reality that's a small piece of an overall package. All one has to do to see the ways the RLX doesn't measure up with the LS is to sit in one, driving one brings up many more ways...and that's the current LS.
02-21-17, 05:56 PM
#158
Lexus Test Driver
Well it did actually grow in size. That is one thing I remember noting. Yeah it's still 4 or 5 inches shorter than the LS 460 SWB, but at least it shed its Accord stature.
If you ever see one, park next to it. It's not as big, but nig nonetheless but yeah it is still a tweaner.
And the reason why I brought the engine up is because many of us in the RL community bemoaned the fact the RL didn't offer a V8 and that's why, above anything else, it will play second fiddle to the other flagships.
Well instead of a V8, they gave us this Hybrid that, according to them, performed as well as a V8 but with better gas mileage. Many of us fled and the RLs, by all accounts, sells extremely poorly.
Am I trying to draw a parallel here? Well kind of, history repeats itself a lot. But The bottom line, the bigger lesson is that Acura should not have tried to price it like a V8. Sound familiar?
They already rolled back the price because no one bought it, but the damage was done.
If you ever see one, park next to it. It's not as big, but nig nonetheless but yeah it is still a tweaner.
And the reason why I brought the engine up is because many of us in the RL community bemoaned the fact the RL didn't offer a V8 and that's why, above anything else, it will play second fiddle to the other flagships.
Well instead of a V8, they gave us this Hybrid that, according to them, performed as well as a V8 but with better gas mileage. Many of us fled and the RLs, by all accounts, sells extremely poorly.
Am I trying to draw a parallel here? Well kind of, history repeats itself a lot. But The bottom line, the bigger lesson is that Acura should not have tried to price it like a V8. Sound familiar?
They already rolled back the price because no one bought it, but the damage was done.
Last edited by Rhambler; 02-21-17 at 06:00 PM.
02-21-17, 05:59 PM
#159
Lexus Fanatic
I don't have to look for one, I've driven it. It's just not at all in the LS' league. It's not a function of size.
The fact that it doesn't have a V8 is the least of its problems.
The fact that it doesn't have a V8 is the least of its problems.
02-21-17, 06:10 PM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
It's better than a lot of people give it credit for, but I agree it's not an LS. The last-generation RL was built like a tank, but did not appeal to many because of its Accord-styling.
02-21-17, 06:20 PM
#161
i picked 5 - 60 mph times from major automotive publications (C&D and MT) to be fair to the is350 since this is closer to realistic on-the-road acceleration and somewhat removes awd advantage from the equation; 0 - 60 times from those same publications puts everyone of the cars listed further ahead of the is350, including the 328i.
i love how you picked the "some people" acceleration times to prove your unsupported claim. laughable.
i love how you picked the "some people" acceleration times to prove your unsupported claim. laughable.
And please show me any proof of a 328i 0-60 being faster than an IS350. 'unsupported claim' 'laughable'
Unsupported claim, lol.
And, because YT isn't the most reliable source
http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle...-60-mph-times/ (4.8)
Those times are hard to replicate and not typical, definitely, but it shows that the car is CAPABLE of them under optimal conditions. Know the difference, and please study your own numbers before you call me out on mine.
Last edited by Rezno; 02-25-17 at 05:58 PM.
02-21-17, 06:22 PM
#162
I believe the RX, GS and maybe ES? are using the same engines now as the sienna, highlander and tacoma. with that said, i think it's a stopgap until the TT V6 trickles down from the LS to the rest of the lineup.
No way is Lexus becoming Acura. I consider myself a big Honda fan but I hate how Acura has flat out stunk since 2008. They are quickly becoming like Mercury because even Lincolns are getting more interesting than Acuras now.
No way is Lexus becoming Acura. I consider myself a big Honda fan but I hate how Acura has flat out stunk since 2008. They are quickly becoming like Mercury because even Lincolns are getting more interesting than Acuras now.
02-21-17, 06:52 PM
#163
Lexus Champion
Correct. The RX and ES both use the 2GR FE engine, shared with various V6 Toyota cars due to the FWD platform its on. Also, the LX570 and Land Cruiser also share an engine. I am uncertain about anything else. Soon enough that TTV6 will make its way down and it will be exciting to see what they will do with it.
02-21-17, 07:04 PM
#164
Lexus Champion
Back in the prehistoric dinosaur age when Japanese manufacturers decided they wanted to take on the Germans, Acura was an up and coming brand and it thrived. So did Lexus and eventually Infiniti.
Acura>>Audi competitor
Infiniti>>BMW competitor
Lexus>>Mercedes Benz rival
What happened? Acura stuck to transverse FWD cars and eventually just decided to cash in on the crossover craze. By the time the revamped RL offered AWD in 05 it was too late. Audi had already been doing that and offered the single frame grill to create excitement and a new image.
Essentially Acura is a crossover company for people who don't want a Honda Pilot/Accord etc. (NSX excluded).
Where does this leave Lexus? Well I don't think Lexus is the same as Acura because Lexus kept at it with the LS, GS and of course the IS over all these years. This new LS and its reviews and pricing are going to be critical to its success. Acura's beak and weirdo styling was just the final chapter on its sedans. Now we'll see if consumers embrace the LS and its styling.
Acura>>Audi competitor
Infiniti>>BMW competitor
Lexus>>Mercedes Benz rival
What happened? Acura stuck to transverse FWD cars and eventually just decided to cash in on the crossover craze. By the time the revamped RL offered AWD in 05 it was too late. Audi had already been doing that and offered the single frame grill to create excitement and a new image.
Essentially Acura is a crossover company for people who don't want a Honda Pilot/Accord etc. (NSX excluded).
Where does this leave Lexus? Well I don't think Lexus is the same as Acura because Lexus kept at it with the LS, GS and of course the IS over all these years. This new LS and its reviews and pricing are going to be critical to its success. Acura's beak and weirdo styling was just the final chapter on its sedans. Now we'll see if consumers embrace the LS and its styling.