2018 Camry revealed
06-12-17, 07:50 AM
#271
Lexus Champion
So anyway...the new Camry...
06-12-17, 10:26 AM
#273
Lexus Fanatic
Following on this definition, a hybrid electric vehicle is a vehicle in which the second power source is an electric motor. This definition is broad enough to include self-contained hybrid vehicles, like the Prius, Camry Hybrid and ES Hybrid, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV), like the Volt, the Prius Prime and the German luxury automakers' plug-in hybrids..
Anyways, the big issue I have is why do we need reduce the power and take away dual VTTi on a Camry hybrid yet leave it in on the regular 2.5. And then ask for money yet there is no advantage of actual performance aside from MPG.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 06-12-17 at 10:30 AM.
06-12-17, 02:04 PM
#274
Let's not get into a fight about definitions.
The formal engineering definition of a hybrid vehicle is one that may run on 2 or more different sources of power, one of which is usually an internal combustion engine (gasoline- or diesel-powered piston engine), since that has been the default source of power for motorized vehicles for over a century; the other source(s) may be an electric motor or a hydraulic motor.
Following on this definition, a hybrid electric vehicle is a vehicle in which the second power source is an electric motor. This definition is broad enough to include self-contained hybrid vehicles, like the Prius, Camry Hybrid and ES Hybrid, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV), like the Volt, the Prius Prime and the German luxury automakers' plug-in hybrids.
It has become understood in context that when we talk about "hybrid vehicle", we mean one with an internal combustion engine and electric motor. Let's leave it at that and not get into a fight and splitting hairs about formal definitions.
The formal engineering definition of a hybrid vehicle is one that may run on 2 or more different sources of power, one of which is usually an internal combustion engine (gasoline- or diesel-powered piston engine), since that has been the default source of power for motorized vehicles for over a century; the other source(s) may be an electric motor or a hydraulic motor.
Following on this definition, a hybrid electric vehicle is a vehicle in which the second power source is an electric motor. This definition is broad enough to include self-contained hybrid vehicles, like the Prius, Camry Hybrid and ES Hybrid, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV), like the Volt, the Prius Prime and the German luxury automakers' plug-in hybrids.
It has become understood in context that when we talk about "hybrid vehicle", we mean one with an internal combustion engine and electric motor. Let's leave it at that and not get into a fight and splitting hairs about formal definitions.
I think you are likely right, but at the same time I think you are stretching Toyota/Lexus hybrid cars by calling them hybrid ""electric vehicles. It would be interesting to know of Toyota calls them HEV cars.
Anyways, the big issue I have is why do we need reduce the power and take away dual VTTi on a Camry hybrid yet leave it in on the regular 2.5. And then ask for money yet there is no advantage of actual performance aside from MPG.
Anyways, the big issue I have is why do we need reduce the power and take away dual VTTi on a Camry hybrid yet leave it in on the regular 2.5. And then ask for money yet there is no advantage of actual performance aside from MPG.
In English, we place the adjective/adverb before the noun/verb, such that we say "beautiful car" or "big car".
Thus, when we say "sports oriented suspension", we mean a suspension system that is sporty.
By the same token, a hybrid electric vehicle in English means an electric vehicle that has been hybridized.
Unfortunately, this is not true of the Toyota Camry Hybrid.
The Camry Hybrid is not an electric vehicle that has been hybridized.
The Camry Hybrid is a traditional conventional gasoline powered internal combustion engine powered vehicle that has been "electrified", thus hybridized.
On full EV mode, it only takes a slightly heavy prod of the throttle pedal, and the ICE has kicked in, and full EV mode is out.
The Camry Hybrid & ES300h's full EV mode range is pretty useless.
The Camry Hybrid & ES300h's main method of propulsion is by far the internal combustion engine.
At least PHEV's with much bigger lion batteries, much bigger electric motors, more acceleration, and more decent full electric vehicle range like the more modern C350e, 330e and Toyota Prius Prime - can claim to be a hybrid electric vehicle.
There are times when we get terminology wrong, to the point now where society literally use the term SUV and crossover interchangeably; technically, SUV's and crossovers are very different internally.
It's a similar story with Pluto.
Traditionally, it was designated as a planet.
Nowadays, there are larger celestial bodies than Pluto in the Kuiper Belt, such that the formal International Astronomical Union (IAU) now designates Pluto as a dwarf planet, as opposed to a major planet in the true sense.
It is okay and cool for formal organizations to change their terminology/classifications over time; that's life - life is ever dynamic, and things change...
_
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-12-17 at 07:59 PM.
06-12-17, 02:29 PM
#275
I think you are likely right, but at the same time I think you are stretching Toyota/Lexus hybrid cars by calling them hybrid ""electric vehicles. It would be interesting to know of Toyota calls them HEV cars.
Anyways, the big issue I have is why do we need reduce the power and take away dual VTTi on a Camry hybrid yet leave it in on the regular 2.5. And then ask for money yet there is no advantage of actual performance aside from MPG.
Anyways, the big issue I have is why do we need reduce the power and take away dual VTTi on a Camry hybrid yet leave it in on the regular 2.5. And then ask for money yet there is no advantage of actual performance aside from MPG.
They have to reduce the power to increase the economy.
That's why I am rather disappointed with these Camry Hybrids.
IMO, TMC must take the next step more quickly, and bring in the Camry "Prime" PHEV with a much bigger Lion battery in the trunk, much bigger electric motors, for much more power, economy, and electric range, to bridge the gap to full blown electric vehicles.
Prius Prime is here, but how long will it take us to get Camry Prime and ES350p Prime PHEV's???
The secret to the Tesla Model S is the huge Lion battery pack, and big powerful electric motors.
Below, look at that big beautiful battery behind the rear seat backrest, and between the rear wheels under the trunk in the following diagram.
Notice how big the rear-mounted battery pack is compared to the traditional front-mounted ICE?
PHEV's really bridge the gap to full blown EV.
Unfortunately, the traditional Camry Hybrid is passe now, but then the Camry Hybrid was so cheap...
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-12-17 at 08:20 PM.
06-13-17, 12:23 PM
#276
2018 Camry Specs
The new 2018 Camry specs looks really nice. the all new 2.5L with 203hp or 206hp and the V6 3.5L with 301hp. What do you guys thinks?
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n-segment-now/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n-segment-now/
Last edited by bjnzzzle; 06-13-17 at 06:22 PM.
06-13-17, 03:11 PM
#278
06-13-17, 03:45 PM
#279
Lexus Champion
Those are some pretty nice specs. I'm genuinely excited about this new Camry.
As far as the front end is concerned, I like it. Maybe I just fall squarely into the demographic/target, but I will probably never understand why the spindle grill is such an issue for people. There are square grills, rectangular grills, trapezoidal grills, rounded grills, big grills, little grills, no grills, etc. To me it's just another shape and a character that finally brought me to the Lexus brand.
As far as the front end is concerned, I like it. Maybe I just fall squarely into the demographic/target, but I will probably never understand why the spindle grill is such an issue for people. There are square grills, rectangular grills, trapezoidal grills, rounded grills, big grills, little grills, no grills, etc. To me it's just another shape and a character that finally brought me to the Lexus brand.
06-13-17, 04:08 PM
#281
06-13-17, 05:47 PM
#283
Lexus Champion
06-13-17, 07:24 PM
#284
Lexus Champion
I could not care any less about how good the engine power specs may be; that is all just a p!$$ing match between the automakers and auto critics. All I care about is that this car is still a Camry.
Did Toyota give up anything to bring about the high power specs? Will this new car still drive and ride like a Camry? Is it still smooth and quiet, and an excellent long-distance cruiser? Will it still have good fuel economy? Will it still have a roomy rear seat and a roomy trunk? If it has given up any of these traditional Camry characteristics, I will be disappointed.
I don't care if the new Camry is sportier than the Accord. My wife already has an Accord (and I don't find it that sporty). I want a smooth and quiet Camry.
Will this new Camry steal sales from Avalon and ES? It may, in its first year, before the Avalon and ES themselves are replaced with new models. The fall in sales for the 2018 Avalon and ES may be expected though, given that 2018 will likely be the final year for the current Avalon and ES before they too are replaced with new TNGA-based models.
As the Avalon and ES are based on the Camry, and new models typically come about 1 year after the new Camry, I am expecting new Avalon and ES for 2019, both on the TNGA platform, and both boasting the same improvements (such as more powerful engines and different styling) that the 2018 Camry brings.
Based on this profile shot, I am not a big fan of the new styling; I think that it is a bit overstyled. But given that this is probably a photo that has been enhanced to highlight light and shadows, the actual car -- especially if it is in a different (darker) colour -- may not look so exaggerated.
Did Toyota give up anything to bring about the high power specs? Will this new car still drive and ride like a Camry? Is it still smooth and quiet, and an excellent long-distance cruiser? Will it still have good fuel economy? Will it still have a roomy rear seat and a roomy trunk? If it has given up any of these traditional Camry characteristics, I will be disappointed.
I don't care if the new Camry is sportier than the Accord. My wife already has an Accord (and I don't find it that sporty). I want a smooth and quiet Camry.
As the Avalon and ES are based on the Camry, and new models typically come about 1 year after the new Camry, I am expecting new Avalon and ES for 2019, both on the TNGA platform, and both boasting the same improvements (such as more powerful engines and different styling) that the 2018 Camry brings.
Based on this profile shot, I am not a big fan of the new styling; I think that it is a bit overstyled. But given that this is probably a photo that has been enhanced to highlight light and shadows, the actual car -- especially if it is in a different (darker) colour -- may not look so exaggerated.
06-13-17, 09:51 PM
#285
Lexus Test Driver
From photos thus far, I'm not liking what I see. It is overstyled, plain and simple. I'm hoping it looks better in person, which often is the case.