Consumer Reports top 10 Most and Least reliable cars
12-04-16, 01:45 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
I personally got burned by General Motors crap for a number of years back in the day. I tried out Toyota based on word of mouth and found that they lasted longer (and still do) compared to GM and some others. But for luxury purchases, I would rather lease as I would like the upgrade on that to come sooner than later as the tech keeps getting better.
12-04-16, 04:01 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Exactly. Enthusiast magazines are generally that...for performance enthusiasts. While there are exceptions, in general, they rate vehicles according to 0-60/quarter-mile times, skidpad, braking, slalom-speeds, and how well the seats hold you in during tight turns. While CR does not ignore actual performance times, most of their criteria is based on everyday common sense, comfort, ease-of-control use, and the car's typical driving-manners.
Back to the reliability issue, it is important to note that the average all-new or major redesign vehicle will typically not have enough data in CR for even a preliminary reliability rating for at least about six months or so....preferably close to a year, depending on how well the vehicle sells, and how many CR questionnaires are filed out and returned. Some vehicles have been on the market for years, and still have little or no reliability data.....they just don't sell enough. CR, though, will sometimes project a reliability rating even on a new or major redesign, if the previous version showed a marked tendency over several years of being well above or well below average. Sometimes, though, that backfires on them, such as with the all-new 2006 Camry V6, which CR, based on past models, prematurely projected as being reliable, then was later embarrassed when many of the automatic transmissions were defective.
Back to the reliability issue, it is important to note that the average all-new or major redesign vehicle will typically not have enough data in CR for even a preliminary reliability rating for at least about six months or so....preferably close to a year, depending on how well the vehicle sells, and how many CR questionnaires are filed out and returned. Some vehicles have been on the market for years, and still have little or no reliability data.....they just don't sell enough. CR, though, will sometimes project a reliability rating even on a new or major redesign, if the previous version showed a marked tendency over several years of being well above or well below average. Sometimes, though, that backfires on them, such as with the all-new 2006 Camry V6, which CR, based on past models, prematurely projected as being reliable, then was later embarrassed when many of the automatic transmissions were defective.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-04-16 at 04:06 PM.
12-04-16, 04:14 PM
#19
Well, if you think it is B.S., then show us a better one. Like it or not, the work that CR does collecting data for their reliability rankings is among the best that is available today......even comparing it to J.D. Power. I have also found, over many years, that their reliability results are close (or fairly close) to the experience of both myself and others with vehicle ownership.
12-04-16, 04:21 PM
#20
Exactly, and in the luxury market, most are not concerned about the long run because leases drive the sales. Even Lexus will lease more than they retail. Reliability becomes less of a selling point to buyers in a different income level than the average Camry/Accord buyer.
12-04-16, 04:31 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
On the UI/infotainment issue, I agree that some people take to those kinds of features much better then others (I myself am not one that adapts to them very easily). It might be a piece of cake for Millenials who grew up with Smartphones, tablets, I-Pods, Bluetooth, and other electronic gadgets, but not necessarily for older drivers. CR, in reaching their general evaluations, has to take into account the fact that many who are actually buying and driving these products aren't necessarily with computer-saavy Millenials or sport-oriented performance enthusiasts. In other words, welcome to the real world.
12-04-16, 04:52 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
12-04-16, 10:02 PM
#23
Although there is still a significant difference in the rate of problems (per 100 vehicles) between brands, and even between different vehicles of the same brand, the reliability issue today, in general, has almost become superfluous. Although some problems remain, like the Ford Fiesta/Focus dual-clutch automatics and the electronics in VW products, almost all of today's vehicles today are so well-built that true lemons are almost becoming extinct. I can distinctly remember many of those classic lemons.....Chevrolet Citation, Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni, Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen, Chevrolet Vega, Ford Pinto, GM's Diesel V8s, Hyundai Excel, Yugo, and almost anything from Renault, Fiat, or other Italian brands. It's interesting to note that most of the worst of those lemons were designed and built in the 70s and 80s....the period I call the Dark Ages of automotive quality. Today, in comparison, even with today's so-called "unreliable" vehicles......we're spoiled.
12-05-16, 05:29 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
that's like the old marketing trick of stating "no other [name your product category] is better." doesn't mean yours is any better than any other, just that it hasn't been proven. maybe they're all worthless. CRs reports aren't entirely worthless, just deeply flawed and disingenuous. but hey, gives us something to write about, and, like other things taken on faith, provides comfort to many (not knocking that).
lol, yup.
by significant, you mean where brand A's customers report having 2 annoyances with their infotainment vs. brand B so brand A must be 'twice as unreliable'? that's flawed on so many levels.
or extrapolating reliability rating for a model based on prior years when the current year is an entirely new vehicle?
well said.
CRs reports aren't entirely worthless, just deeply flawed and disingenuous. but hey, gives us something to write about, and, like other things taken on faith, provides comfort to many (not knocking that).or extrapolating reliability rating for a model based on prior years when the current year is an entirely new vehicle?
the reliability issue today, in general, has almost become superfluous.
12-05-16, 05:30 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
oh and i know a bunch of people with escalades who absolutely love them. 
12-05-16, 06:11 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
that's like the old marketing trick of stating "no other [name your product category] is better." doesn't mean yours is any better than any other, just that it hasn't been proven. maybe they're all worthless. CRs reports aren't entirely worthless, just deeply flawed and disingenuous. but hey, gives us something to write about, and, like other things taken on faith, provides comfort to many (not knocking that).
CRs reports aren't entirely worthless, just deeply flawed and disingenuous. but hey, gives us something to write about, and, like other things taken on faith, provides comfort to many (not knocking that).
by significant, you mean where brand A's customers report having 2 annoyances with their infotainment vs. brand B so brand A must be 'twice as unreliable'? that's flawed on so many levels.
or extrapolating reliability rating for a model based on prior years when the current year is an entirely new vehicle?
or extrapolating reliability rating for a model based on prior years when the current year is an entirely new vehicle?
12-05-16, 01:52 PM
#27
Oh definitely, even the worse Chrysler today is likely better than many of those cars you mentioned (but of course there's plenty of better of choices than the outgoing 200), but I also think that it is also the psyche of buyers. Camry/Accord buyers tend to be risk averse, stick to what they know, hence the continued sales success of these two for so long, for better or worse. Luxury buyers are more open minded since if we presume that they lease, they are likely to have tried a variety of vehicles because of money obviously lol.
12-05-16, 03:19 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
All I said was that IF someone wants to pan CR's data (like several posters here on Car Chat do regularly) then simply show us one of those better ones....if they exist at all. Apparantly, no one has done so yet.
Well, that's part of the issue right there. What is considered "significant" today is certainly not what it would have been considered 20 or 30 years ago. With CR, just a few percentage points in the problem-rate category (even one or two percent in some cases) can mean the difference in what kind of circle a vehicle gets in each box, for each reliability area (engine, transmission, body hardware, brakes, etc....)
Last edited by bitkahuna; 12-06-16 at 07:50 AM.
12-05-16, 04:00 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Sounded that way for a minute, but OK, I'll take you at your word. 
They already are pretty much into the digital age, with on-line subscriptions in addition to the paper copies. In fact, the on-line subscription actually give you access to a lot more data.
CR like all 'magazines' and paid online resources, will fight for its survival in the digital age. pretty soon all of CR can be replaced by a real AI/big data analysis based on YUUUGE data sets, not lame subscriber surveys.
