GS69

Car owners are complaining about 2 features in modern cars

Matthew DeBord,Business Insider 18 hours ago

(The Tesla infotainment system in the Model X has some issues.Tesla Motors)

Consumer Reports is out with its 2016 Annual Auto Reliability Survey, and the watchdog publication has observed a troubling pair of complaints among vehicle owners and CR subscribers.

Advanced infotainment systems and more fuel-efficient multispeed transmissions are causing problems.

Neither issue should surprise anyone. In just about a decade, vehicles have gone from having radios, tape decks, and CD players to having complicated touchscreen infotainment interfaces that manage everything from GPS navigation to audio to smartphone integration.

Most automakers develop their own infotainment systems, and some work far better than others. But even with the ones that cause limited trouble, the kinks are still being worked out.

At Business Insider, we test out numerous infotainment systems, and while we don't much care for the less user-friendly versions, we don't usually have the vehicles long enough to see a lot of glitches. Every so often, however, we sample one that's a huge pain to make work properly or that freezes up — or is utterly frustrating to negotiate.

The more fuel-efficient transmissions are a different story. While 4-and 5-speed automatics used to be common — and were quite reliable — newer 7-, 8-, and 9-speed units have been introduced in recent years. The additional speeds or gearings, in concert with sophisticated engine-management computers, enable cars to serve up better MPGs.

That is, when they work properly.

Lately, we've found that some 8- and 9-speeds to misbehave when driving. Again, we don't test our sample cars to failure. But we can see that this might be a point of irritation for owners.

(Ah, for the good old days.Hollis Johnson)

What's disturbing about this is that the pace of infotainment development isn't slowing down. A great deal more tech is being foisted on consumers — both because it's possible and because car buyers are demanding it. And automakers are up against more stringent future fuel-economy standards for their fleets, to they have to come up with ways to increase MPGs overall, especially of they want to keep selling highly profitable big pickups and SUVs.

The auto industry has made tremendous strides in reliability over the past 2 decades, to the point that there aren't really any truly bad cars anymore.

But if this arms race on infotainment persists, and if carmakers can't come up with more basic ways to improve fuel economy, then the industry runs the risk of rolling back some of its hard-wrought reliability gains.

Toys4RJill

This is because car buyers actually want the touchscreen tech. These articles are so foolish, where is there data showing how many buyers actually hate them. And those clowns at CR should just stop talking cars all together.

mmarshall

The auto-buying public is actually divided on the issue. Some seem to want them, and have little or no trouble adjusting to them. Others (and I'm generally in this category) find them a PITA....although I did, over time, adjust somewhat to the Buick Intellink system in the Verano (I don't actually use it that much, except to change radio stations and reset the clock twice a year).


CR is one of the most successful (and respected) auto publications in history....dating back to 1936. You have the right (and privilege) to state your opinion and talk about cars here in Car Chat. Why do you want to deny the right to others....simply because you disagree with them? I myself happen to think that Jeremy Clarkson is a clown, and not a true auto reviewer, but I wouldn't dream of telling him to stop doing the shows and videos he does.....he has many fans and followers who DO like him, just like Consumer Reports.

RXSF

I dont mind if infotainment systems in cars are buggy or laggy at first, but they need to be able to address them. Tesla did it right here with over the air software updates, something the computer industry has been doing since the beginning. When a car is in need of a software update, first it is rare that an update exists, and second, it is nearly impossible to convince the dealer that your car needs said update.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

there needs to be a distinction between annoyances and actual defects

UDel

Maybe you want and like touchscreens but many buyers and owners have a issue with them and don't like them. I can't stand them, most of the people I talk to can't stand touchscreen interfaces and losing buttons, my parents hate the touchscreen in their new car. Difficult and needlessly complicated touchscreens replacing traditional buttons and switches are one of the biggest complaints now when it comes to newer cars.

https://www.cars.com/articles/the-10...1420676890727/
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...into-ford-sync
https://conversation.which.co.uk/tec...kswagen-tesla/

mmarshall

I agree. Something can be working exactly as designed and still be a PITA.

Aron9000

^ This. Tesla has really been leading the field in infotainment. Imagine going to work one day, your car has automatically updated the software overnight while you sleep. What do you know, the screens are less laggy, you have new features and applications that are now standard on the 2017 models, and you didn't have to waste your time going to the dealership for an update. This is just exceptional customer service IMO, fixing somebody's car while they sleep and totally avoiding taking your car to the shop.


Getting back to the other topic, about more fuel efficient automatic transmissions. Some new automatic transmissions are great, some feel like they're programmed by a bunch of morons. As an example, I've driven a new 2016 Tacoma, V6/automatic/2wd around for a bit. The transmission programming is absolutely infuriating, its constantly up-shifting into the highest gear for "better fuel economy" You combine that with an engine that has a rather high torque peak above 3000rpm, its constantly in the wrong gear and makes the whole truck feel sluggish. Push the gas down even just a little bit, it automatically jumps down a gear or two, even on flat ground say if you want to speed up from 55mph to 60mph. Combine that with all the hills around where I live, its just a bad design. The old 4 speed automatic/V6 combo I've driven in older Tacomas works a lot better with less shifting(although they are slower when you do put the hammer down). I found this "fuel economy" programming to be so annoying that I pushed the "ECT/POWER" button that alters the shift logic to where it isn't constantly upshifting.

roadbike56

The auto transmission comment is interesting. I'm also a member of the Corvette forums. There has been much talk about the 8 speed automatic installed in the C7 since 2015 (when auto transmission is selected). There has been a considerable number of posts about programming problems and torque converter failures. When the A8 was introduced in 2015 in the C7 it replaced the A6 that was the auto transmission for the first year of the C7, 2014. Initially it was believed that the owners of the first year, A6 would see considerable depreciation due to the better track performance of the A8. However, due to the number of failures and reprogramming, the trusty A6 has become somewhat sought after in the used market, especially amongst those who don't plan to track their Corvettes. True, that in 2016 it seems GM has figured out what corrections were needed and reliability seems to be high again, but those first A8 units, I wouldn't want to own one without a warranty.
As for me, I like my high performance sports cars to shift manually, I have an M7. I'll leave my automatic transmissions in the Lexus RX350.

roadbike56

MMarshall,
I'm a member of four car forums. Your comments about CR are by far, the kindest I've read on any of those forums. Most of what I've read would agree with LexsCTJill, maybe not those exact words. I used to be a fan of CR and followed their advice. After several disappointments, I gave up on CR. I found product reviews on the internet are more reliable.

SW17LS

IMHO the biggest change that needs to be made is upgradability of infotainment systems. When a new iOS or OS for my Apple computers come out...I don't have to go buy a new iPhone or iPad or computer, I can upgrade my old iPhone, iPad or Computer to run the new OS (within reason). Apple even realized the incredible power of offering these upgrades for free. Does it stop people from buying new hardware? No data suggests that it does.

The fact that my 2015 LS460 has two generations behind infotainment technology and that the only way for me to get the upgraded technology (fullscreen nav, etc) is to loose $30,000 by trading my car in on an otherwise identical car. I should be able to have the dealer, or OTA upgrade my car to have the latest infotainment OS available on a 2017 model. Perhaps some features will be omitted on an older vehicles who's hardware sort support it and thats fine, (as Apple does with their OS. My iPhone 6 running the same OS as an iPhone 7 doesn't have all the 7's functionality, but it has the same look, etc.

Understandably, once it gets really old it can't be upgraded (as in I can't have my iPhone 4 run the latest iOS), but within 5 years or so there should be no reason a 2013 Lexus with the same screen and interface can't run the OS from a 2017 Lexus.

If carmakers want to make a splash, thats where it can be made. And its getting there. For instance Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are available on the 2017 Kia UVO system. Guess what I can get with an upgrade? That functionality and the look of the new system on my 2015. Lexus isn't as forward thinking.

BoDarville

strictly out of curiosity, no agenda or attempt to make a point intended or implied -- when is the last time you sequentially rowed thru each and every one of the gears all the way through 1-2-3-4-5-6-7? think and be totally honest!

mmarshall

Thanks.....but I don't speak of CR the way I do simply because of kindness, out of naiveness, or out of a clear blue sky for no reason. I have found, time and time again, from my own experience, over many years (but not always), that most of what they say is either correct or reasonably correct on the mark. They also have what is arguably the best data base in the business to gauge auto reliability...though, of course, it takes some time for an all-new vehicle to build enough data to have a record. And I wasn't telling Jill that she didn't have a right to her opinion...only that, IHO, it is improper to tell some else (or some other organization, such as CR) they they don't have a right to theirs. And I will repeat that same statement, right here, right now...I'm not changing it.

(BTW, I also post in more than one forum).

mmarshall

It's true that the old 4-speed automatics do less shifting, but they also have less flexibility than the newer multi-speeds, and they can make the engine lug in some instances. They also tend, sometimes to hunt, on sharp up or downgrades unless you manually keep them in, say, third gear.

Just adding gears alone, though, does not necessarily guarantee flexibility at any RPM. Some GM FWD 6-speed automatics, for instance, are closely-spaced in the lower four gears for acceleration/power, but then have a rather wide gap between 4th and the upper two gears where engine RPM can jump significantly.

spwolf

problem with that is that it makes them ship beta versions of their cars and there is always something new to fix, and then when you need to go in for a fix, there is 1+ month waiting time since they are overworked... and then these problems add up so you end up being worst brand on CR list.