Sulu

I don't think you can or should blame other automakers for Cadillac's problems. The problem is simply that Cadillac has not (yet) produced a car that people want to buy.

The root of the car problem may be that its cars are too expensive or their interior quality is not up to scratch, or that simply Cadillac is trying too hard to copy other automakers and therefore not being the luxury carmaker that its buyers are looking for; I do not think that it is external styling, since the Escalade uses that style and it sells.

dseag2

You really can't include Jaguar in that group. They are a prime example of a brand that DID give up their core styling almost a decade ago. It started with the XF. The Jaguars of a decade ago looked like the Jaguars of the 60's. Ian McCallum went much more modern with the new designs and they are selling much better. Even the interiors are radically different. Sometimes legacy styling isn't always a good thing.

oldcajun

My take on Cadillac's problems is that their new CEO wants to leap into competition with Mercedes without establishing the lines credibility first. He seems to think that if you price a Cadillac like a Mercedes or BMW that the public will consider them competitors. The engineers did an excellent job with the ATS, CTS, and now the CT6. If these had been marketed at a reasonable price, the public would have realized what excellent cars they are. Instead, they were overpriced so few people actually bought them and few recognized how good they were. At their price point, they created expectations that they weren't ready to live up to. I have driven a CT6 Luxury Edition with the 3.6 V-6. It is an exceptional car that I prefer to a BMW 528i or a Mercedes E350. Unfortunately, it is priced very near a Lexus LS460 and it is not that good.

I'm not sure how Cadillac recovers other than a huge rebate program or highly incentivised leases.
Steve

TangoRed

Yeah not sure why I lumped Jaguar in there to be honest. Jaguar didn't just have legacy design cues, they just flat out never changed their design language from the 60's until the XF rolled out.

Didn't feel like editing my post because I felt the "sometimes" in my original post and "isn't always" phrase in the post you quoted made my point that it works for many brands but not all. The fact that automakers have shied away from designs because it looked too much like a Caddy is powerful though.

Fizzboy7

Thank you. That is exactly the point I am trying to show. Legacy/retro styling is not the answer with a younger buying demographic. Jaguar has at least done a good job of modernizing and stepping into comparative designs. Meanwhile, Cadillac is still shoving tailfin lights on all their rumps. Fail. We have to start being honest with ourselves and put the styling ontop of the problem. People cannot relate to that look in this particular segment. It would be okay for Buick or Lincoln, but not with a brand who's trying to compete with the young, trendy crowd looking at sport sedans. They are cross-shopping BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti. Those are progressive brands leading the way with tomorrow's trends. Why would these customers want to drop a lot of coin on a design that goes back to the 70's? They do not. This should be the end of the discussion. Styling is the main problem with Cadillac. They will improve CUE, the interiors, and reliability, but sales will not increase until they start mimicking what the other brands offer on the outside.
Hard to swallow, but reality. The subjective topic of styling can ruin a brand if it's too far off track.

TangoRed

Again, not necessarily. MINI is one of the top brands leased by millenials according to Bloomberg. Very retro.

Regardless, you mentioned BMW in your post. They're a true prime example of a brand that has kept legacy design cues despite changing their design language. Pre-Bangle, Bangle, and post-Bangle BMW's all included that Hoffmeister kink and kidney grilles. They were adapted into the new design language but remained nonetheless. That is something Cadillac can do, but they've been using that polarizing Art & Science language for too long. Since the first CTS in fact.

Net, I don't think Cadillac has to get rid of their design cues, but it certainly sounds like we all agree its time for Art & Science to get lost.

SW17LS

I don't think styling is an issue at all. I think their cars are quite attractive, and any retro cues are kept to a minimum (really just taillights). I'm the demographic they're looking for too.

tex2670

Cadillac's biggest and only problem is itself, and its inflated view of itself in the car market. They think they can just build a better mousetrap and the world will come knocking. But it's just not that simple--and it's questionable if their mousetrap is truly better.

tex2670

Exactly.

SW17LS

It's not just that people didn't buy them...they didn't even go look at them because of the pricing.

tex2670

I've suggested for a while that Caddy should have used a Hyundai-type strategy. Not to discount and undercut the competition, but to give you more for the same dollars. The ATS sedan requires you to go up to the 3rd tier -- Performance -- to get HID headlights and LED DRLs; make these, and other features standard. Don't bundle blind spot monitoring with a $2,500 package of other stuff. At each trim level, make more standard features than the equivalent competitor. Use reasons to lure people to your product other than it handles better than the competition--because customers looking primarily for that characteristic are small in number.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

what does that mean exactly? what expectations? you say it's excellent, so why should it be given away?

the CT6 starts at $53,500. show me how you can get a new bmw 5, mercedes E or LS460 for that price. yes a loaded one gets close to $90 and that spread is a bit mad, but i'd bet most won't 'buy' it anyway, it will be leased, and written off, so the difference in payments aren't that relevant... it's all down to whether someone likes the vehicle. if someone is getting the bmw, mb or lexus over a cadillac because they think it will give them more 'status' at the country club or fancy restaurant, that's their deal, but i think if cadillac keeps at it, they're going to be considered very worthy competition.

not sure if you have much marketing experience, but unless you're a store like walmart, you're not marketing on price. if cadillac does those things like you want, you're saying they should act apologetic and as if they should accept they're not good enough to play with the big boys. that's flat stupid.

tesla sells in TINY numbers. should they drop the price of the S $10-20K just to sell more? and it has a pretty crappy interior. no, because that would be stupid.

we can nitpick all day and i think cadillac's 'sales problem' is more one of gm wanting to stuff product down dealers' throats, combined with a massive u.s. swing away from sedans and to cuv/suvs right after cadillac has spent billions trying to have a solid sedan line-up.

mmarshall

I tend to agree with bitkahuna here. This post makes sense.

Agreed on the general shift towards SUVs, but Cadillac, Like Lincoln, still needs a credible flagship sedan. The MKS and XTS, IMO, just didn't cut it.

mmarshall

Well, actually, I'm not blaming other automakers as such....only pointing out that some of them are (currently) giving people better products for equal or sometimes less money. That (may) change when the XT5 and CT6 are released...we'll see. The ATS has earned the award of best-handling car in its class (formerly held by the 3-series)....but the ATS's stiff ride turns off some potential buyers.

The Escalade sells because it has bling....even more than the Navigator's. The Buick Enclave also has a lot of bling, but tends to sell more to the family and soccer-mom class.

Toys4RJill

Does anyone have the 2015 sales for Cadillac vs the competition?