Universe93

Since we are all Lexus owners, we care about reliability, to put it simply. My first car was a 1989 BMW 325i, and it was so exciting to drive, while requiring proper maintenance. In addition to the Odyssey, do people on this forum also own German vehicles (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) as their other vehicles? I've always wanted to buy an Audi Q5 or the new Mercedes GLC as a small SUV -it would be fun to drive and practical also due to the cargo room. (I left out BMW X3 since it is way too expensive.) Their driving dynamics are great, and there's something cool about having a car made in Germany. But we all know the Japanese know everything about reliability. I'm going to post on why I think German cars have a bad reputation about reliability and you tell me what you think. (This is in addition to the general sense that Japanese care are more reliable anyway).

>This is one reason that German cars have a reputation of being unreliable. They have technology that push the limits of mechanics at that particular point in time. Most people buy a car for $50k and then they approach the 60k maintenance that will cost them over $1000, if not close to $2000. Since these people might trade their German car before 100k miles or so, what's the point of spending that money on constant maintenance?

So you sell your $50k car at 90k miles without proper maintenance already skipped, to some kid who wants to look rich for $15k. Said kid barely has the money to pay for the car, let alone get maintenance done. Any money he has will go to aftermarket rims and a stereo system, and the skipped maintenance cycle continues.

This process repeats itself several times and in the end you have someone who buys a used BMW/Mercedes/Audi for $5k with and deals with all kinds of engine trouble, OEM rubber parts crumbling to pieces, interior trim coming off -on top of that having to listen to a smug coworker tell him how their beige Corolla has never given them any trouble with only basic oil changes.

Now if 1 or 2 people had owned this German car and did all of the maintenance that was required and not skip out on everything, you will most likely have a German car that made it to 200k with minimal headaches.

Aron9000

I think you have a good point on people not paying to do the factory required maintenance on German cars. Its so hideously expensive if you use the dealer that people just say screw it, I'm trading the car in next year anyways.

Oh and there are definitely lemons out there in the German car world, some of them really are crap cars IMO. I'm talking about VW/Audi products from the late 90's until about 2010ish, especially those made in Mexico. Late model BMW's with the N63 or S63 V8 engine, Mercedes from the 90's with bio-degradable wiring harnesses, that's just to name a few.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I would never own a BMW, Mercedes or Audi until their reliability improves. They're too finicky for my taste and the last thing I need is unexpected repairs. The only German brand I have confidence in is Porsche. My next car will be a 911 (GT3? RS?)

dseag2

I don't currently own a Lexus, but I owned a '13 GS F Sport for almost 3 years. I traded it for an Audi S5, which I've had for 9000 miles. I also owned '10 and '11 S5 Cabs prior to my Lexus, neither of which gave me any issues. Yes, long-term there may be issues but do a check on the Audi forums and you'll find that S5 and Q5 owners especially have kept their cars for years with relatively few maintenance issues. I think the perception that Audi is not up to par in reliability is dated. Not to say that Lexus is ultimately the most reliable, but Audi was rated #1 by Consumer Reports...

http://www.audicolumbus.com/blog/201...er-reports.htm

Stroock639

my dad got a 2014 E63 S AMG just about 2 years ago now and in that time it's had more major issues than my LS has had in 17 years and by more major issues i mean it's had some issues lol. so it's not just old neglected german cars. and for a year before that it was a used 2005 E55 which was "maintained" but even still was just incredibly glitchy and finicky. certain things would just break and randomly start working again. he eventually got rid of it because every so often it just wouldn't start, then a few hours later would start right up and work fine.

i can't be that smug guy because my LS was originally my grandpa's purchase and he really only bought it because "it was the most comfortable car" and consumer reports said lexus had the best reliability. right before the lexus he bought a 1991 (or thereabouts) lincoln continental was was always in the shop for something and was a frequent headache so reliability was definitely a major factor for the next purchase. obviously the AMGs completely smoke the lexus in terms of performance, electronic gadgets, and how quickly they can use fuel, but if i could only have one it'd be the old lexus. it's just better built and much more serviceable. i can't afford the maintenance for an AMG either lol.

lexusrus

Yes, European cars in general cost more to maintain.

I sold my 1995 Volvo 960 4 door sedan back in 2014 after about 180k miles. I was the original owner. I took delivery brand spanking new November of 1994 as I watched the dealer unload it directly from the auto transporter semi truck trailer.

I had a slew of minor issues way too many to mention. A few major ones including gas tank leaking when it was just one week old left me and my wife stranded in subfreezing temperature at a gas station. All were fixed under warranty.

All routine maintenance were done on time at the dealer which cost an arm and a leg. But all were done.

After the warranty expired, miraculously all issues were already sorted out and all ok. The car continued to receive all proper routine maintenance which I did most of them, e.g., oil changes every 5k.

The car ran fine . Nothing drove like a straight 6 cylinder. The power was linear and smooth. But it's lack of technology is showing. Meaning no bluetooth, no NAV, no BSM, no rear camera, and etc.

So we put an ad on Autotrader for like $1500, running excellent condition with all routine maintenance up to date. A lot of people called and showed up to look at it. After I tell them unless you plan on doing most of the maintenance yourself, the NEXT maintenance will cost MORE than the current asking price of $1500. Plus the fact that VOLVO 960 is famous for eating it's brake pads AND rear tires wear out at around 20k miles. AND ALL THESE ARE NOT CHEAP! I told them to call for pricing. None of them returned for a second look.

I wanted to be as up front as possible.

So one day a teenager with grandparents showed up in a mint condition 1970's MB S class sedan. The grandparents said they have a "guy" who works on their old MB's. The grandpa checked out the old Volvo and said they will buy it right here right now for their teenage grand daughter. So the old Volvo was sold.

My point is if an European car get all the proper maintenance, then all good. It is the DEFERRED MAINTENANCE that will give you headaches. It is either you pay now or later.

tex2670

After years of owning Japanese cars, I traded my Lexus last year for a BMW 328i xDrive. It now has 20,000 miles, and it has been as trouble free as my Lexus was. Will it stay that way long term? I don't know, but I was willing to take a shot.

By the way, when you say the X3 is too expensive, I bought a low mileage CPO Elite. It was 6 months old, and had 5400 miles on it--but the warranty is extended for 1 year and 25,000 miles. And it was 21% under the MSRP if it had been brand new. Some dealers do have X3 executive models and service loaners that might have similar savings as a CPO if you were really interested.

LexBob2

After back to back Lexus, we now have a BMW and Audi. It's the first time for either brand for us. I went in with fingers crossed and so far the experience (both dealership and ownership) with both has been great. No issues with either, just routine maintenance. I'd buy either brand again.

metaleckz

iTrader: (9)

I have a 2000 328CI with almost 180k miles. I bought it used 6 months ago. I replaced the cracked radiator right away. It needs oil level sensor, auxiliary fan for the AC, a BUNCH of gasket cuz im leaking all over. Throw out bearing. Belt , etc
Yeah its reliable

BrownPride

My '09 E90 has 50K miles and is such a pleasure to drive. The interior is fabulous (beautiful brown-orange leather w/ dark wood) and it just looks beautiful from outside, most people can't believe how old it is. Every BMW, aside from a couple of the Bangle cars, are timelessly styled and look eternally beautiful. I hand wash it, wax it regularly, clean and condition the leather regularly, etc. I just love the thing if I haven't made it clear already. The reason I got a Lexus to go along with it is because of the maintenance costs on the Bimmer after my warranty ended. The car hasn't had any major issues, but a headlight bulb here and new performance tires every 15K miles there adds up. I drive it sparingly now.

While I think Lexus has certainly made huge strides in exterior/interior design, quality of materials, infotainment, powertrains, etc. they are still a step behind the Germans. Lexus' are certainly more reliable and cheaper to maintain, but if you are a car enthusiast there is no question that the German makes are simply better.

RXSF

im so bored with lexus at the moment after having driven 3 generations of RX. Currently have the RX and my 09 C350 MB as my dailies. My C class has been trouble free from the start. Everything has been working flawlessly after 7 years, and the only minor issues I deal with is a slight rattle from the steering column that only just developed, and a suspension clunk when driving slow of rough roads. On the other hand, my RX has had multiple issues with rear suspension squeaking that can't be resolved, and a steering wheel click noise and rattle which also can't be resolved. Both cars have these minor quirks to deal with.

However, just last week, I pulled into my driveway and a neighbor was walking his dog. He asked me how the C class was in terms of reliability and I told him it has been trouble free. He said he owns a 2010 model year and that it has been a huge money pit since the warranty ended. I guess it really is luck of the draw.


Side note, if you think the X3 is expensive, I would stay clear of the GLC. Looks like a great vehicle, but after speccing one out, easily heads over 50K.

Diesel350

I think it's just luck of the draw. I would love to get into an M4 but only if it was a lease. I can't imagine owning a high end Merc or BMW out of warranty. Anything electronic goes haywire you are looking at several thousand dollars to fix.

joeyz10

Own a Audi A7 with no issues whatsoever…

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Recently hit 90K miles so I've still a ways to go, but I'll look into a XF S lease when the time comes. Always wanted a Jag

Byprodrive

iTrader: (1)

I have owned my 2000 Boxster S for 13 years today & it has been very reliable during the the 105,000 miles I have driven it. I do all the maintenance & repairs on it. Bought a 2007 Lexus IS350 new, change the oil every 5000 miles & take to the dealer for the 5 recalls it had. I also repaired the touch screen when it failed. So although i was happy enough with the Lexus that i sold in December with 96K miles to buy a 2015 GS350 salvage title,(no warranty) I would have to say the Porsche has been more reliable.
This is not saying that I don't agree with what you say in your post. Adding to what you posted I believe many german cars are leased when new which leads to deferred maintainence & neglect.