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-   -   Leasing used (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/819927-leasing-used.html)

rominl 04-13-16 08:52 PM

Leasing used
 
Pretty interesting article

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hot-on-t...car-1460417861

And it shows that considerable number of Lexus are lease


Hot on the Lot: Leasing a Used Car

Aspiring Lexus owners may have a hard time refusing Brendan Harrington’s latest offer: Get a lightly used version of one of the hottest luxury SUVs in America for as little as $370 a month.

The terms—offered by Mr. Harrington’s Longo Lexus dealership near Los Angeles—come as part of a lease deal on a three-year-old RX 350 with 35,700 miles on the odometer. Spanning 36 months and 45,000 miles of use, the lease requires little money up front and is potentially hundreds of dollars less than a comparatively equipped new model sold at similar terms.

Inventories of used cars in good condition are soaring in the U.S., and finance companies and dealers are scrambling to offer leases as a way to make payments affordable for people who don’t qualify for cheap deals on new cars or those looking to save cash.

New-car sales gained steam in recent years, creating a glut of used vehicles. Those inventories are problematic for auto makers hoping to maintain a record sales pace on fresh sheet metal and remain profitable in the process.

Sales of used cars rose 7% in the first quarter, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association, but wholesale pricing fell during each of those months verus 2015, Manheim Consulting data shows. Manheim estimates used-vehicle supply will hit records in during a three-year period starting in 2016.

Lower used-car prices will eventually dent new-car pricing power, analysts said.

As auto makers continue to subsidize car payments with discounts, reduced interest rates and cheap lease terms, car owners are turning in relatively new vehicles that could be attractive to those in the pre-owned market. But these products are out of reach for many buyers due to the size of monthly payments on a nonsubsidized vehicle loan.

This is where leasing comes in, particularly on vehicles with low miles and high sticker prices. The finance company estimates the vehicle’s value at the end of the term and sets a rate based on that residual. The lease takes risk and repair bills off the table.

“[When] buying a used car, what is the No. 1 concern?” Mr. Harrington, who is president of Longo Toyota and Lexus, said. “Fear of the unknown—has the dealer told me everything?”

Mr. Harrington wasn't leasing used Lexus products at the beginning of the year. By March, 10% of his pre-owned sales came from leases.

Sales managers historically avoided used leases because they were difficult to calculate, but greater access to auction results and real-time sales data is changing dealers’ attitudes. Mr. Harrington, for instance, has developed his own software to aid the process.

More lenders also are getting in the game. Ally Financial Inc., one of the nation’s largest lenders and a former subsidiary of General Motors Co., started offering used leases in March.

The company’s auto-finance president, Tim Russi, estimates eventually one-third of the 20 million-plus used-car purchases that are financed annually could be leases. If this increases demand for used cars, it could bolster their market value.

“I think this is good for the holistic system,” he said.

One of Ally’s clients is Bermont Motors Inc., a used-vehicle dealer near Philadelphia. It has a 2014 Jeep Wrangler on its lot that would cost $544 monthly with a five-year loan, for example. Agreeing to a shorter-term lease would push the payment down to $364 monthly.

Ale Resnik, co-founder of Beepi Inc., an online used-car retailer, said the Silicon Valley company will start leasing later this month as a result of its Ally partnership. His service, which started selling cars two years ago, is aimed at younger buyers typically looking to establish credit.

“Data shows millennials are the ones driving car sales growth in new and used vehicles, and they need more options that enable their freedom,” Mr. Resnik said. Leasing accomplishes that.

The typical used-car lessee has a 635 credit score, 80 points lower than a new-car buyer, according to Experian PLC, which produces credit reports. While only 3.8% of vehicle leases written in the fourth quarter of 2016 were on used vehicles, that number is up a half percentage point compared with the second quarter of 2015.

More than 16% of vehicles purchased—new and used—in the final three months of 2015 were leased, compared with 11.5% in the same period in 2012. Used-vehicle supply was extremely thin four years ago following a sales drought during the financial crisis.

The bet on leasing could turn sour if used vehicle prices take a dramatic turn. But, lenders like Ally, say they are prepared to handle the downside especially because used cars don’t depreciate as fast new ones.For customers, it is a no-lose situation, said Mr. Harrington. “Here’s the beauty of a lease: It’s not your car.”

Fizzboy7 04-13-16 11:16 PM

That's interesting. All past efforts to lease a used vehicle have been turned down in my past experience. They wised up.

situman 04-14-16 06:33 AM

I would lease a used Lexus in a heartbeat. Think of it as a 3 year test drive of the thing instead of being stuck with a used car with problems. When I was shopping for a 2015 GS in December, it was odd my dealer offered me a lease deal on a used GX. The difference was, at that time Lexus was giving GSes away so it was not an enticing deal.

mmarshall 04-14-16 07:07 AM

Good post, Henry. :)

One other advantage of leasing a used vehicle rather than a new one is that, because of the generally flattening depreciation-curve after the first couple of years, the monthly lease-payments, in most cases, should be lower for the same vehicle.

Of course, nevertheless, in my book, there still is (usually) nothing like a brand-new vehicle for the best peace of mind and freedom from potential repairs.

Fizzboy7 04-14-16 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by mmarshall (Post 9447805)
Good post, Henry. :)

One other advantage of leasing a used vehicle rather than a new one is that, because of the generally flattening depreciation-curve after the first couple of years, the monthly lease-payments, in most cases, should be lower for the same vehicle.

Of course, nevertheless, in my book, there still is (usually) nothing like a brand-new vehicle for the best peace of mind and freedom from potential repairs.

The worry of repairs from a used vehicle would not really apply here.... they are Lexuses, which have outstanding reliability records. Plus these are only a few years old, where the warranty mostly still applies. I can see it being a potential concern for other makes.

dseag2 04-14-16 07:00 PM

Great article! I always thought the interest rates on used vehicles were substantially higher than those on new vehicles. I've been told many times, "you can lease a new vehicle for lower payments than a used one." I guess that has changed over the years because people are leasing more often and dealers are finding themselves with lots of lease returns on their lots.

rominl 04-14-16 08:57 PM

the amount of new leases in the past years have been insane. here in cali i noticed that the license plates count goes up very quickly the past 5 years or so. and i know that all brands are suffering from all the lease returns, it's a flood, a lot of them upside down, and people see no reason to buy used when leasing new is cheap. i think this is a good move to lease used, allowing a second tire group to drive these cars while allowing manufacturers and dealerships to create another buffer

rld14 04-15-16 03:14 PM

We lease a huge percentage of our L/Certified cars. I'd say that with RXs and GSs we're at least 50% leased versus sold.

It gives customers a chance to drive a Lexus for the price of a normal car, and, since the car is certified, there's often no warranty exposure.

With Lexus the sweet spot is a very low mile 2013, especially an RX without Navi or a low mile 2012/13 IS without Nav.

Example: Just worked a lease out on a 30K mile 2012 CPO'd IS250 AWD. $1598 at signing, $251/mo. 36 Months, 15K miles a year, and that included NJ taxes, Motor Vehicle, Bank fee, dealer doc fee, everything.

Aron9000 04-15-16 06:59 PM

I guess if you lease, you just budget to be forever in debt with a car payment. Now the upside is you have a new or nearly new car all the time, which is nice.

I cannot see why somebody would lease a used car, unless they want to REALLY live above their means. I mean go downmarket a little bit and lease a NEW Honda or Toyota. Leasing something like a 2013 Audi A4 or BMW 335i with 30k miles for 3 years, with only a bit of factory warranty is a HUGE gamble IMO.

litesoarer 04-15-16 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by rld14 (Post 9449913)
We lease a huge percentage of our L/Certified cars. I'd say that with RXs and GSs we're at least 50% leased versus sold.

It gives customers a chance to drive a Lexus for the price of a normal car, and, since the car is certified, there's often no warranty exposure.

With Lexus the sweet spot is a very low mile 2013, especially an RX without Navi or a low mile 2012/13 IS without Nav.

Example: Just worked a lease out on a 30K mile 2012 CPO'd IS250 AWD. $1598 at signing, $251/mo. 36 Months, 15K miles a year, and that included NJ taxes, Motor Vehicle, Bank fee, dealer doc fee, everything.

I did consider this option, but I DO drive 30K miles/yr

mmarshall 04-15-16 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by Aron9000 (Post 9450125)
Leasing something like a 2013 Audi A4 or BMW 335i with 30k miles for 3 years, with only a bit of factory warranty is a HUGE gamble IMO.

Unlike BMWs, Audis are actually coming up quite a bit in reliability. Gone (or almost gone) are the days that they turn into expensive money-pits after just a couple of years. Consumer Reports now ranks them at or near the top of the industry in reliability.

Of course, when they DO break down, they still ARE money-pits IF the warranty has run out.....any upscale European-badged product will be. But, fortunately, the chances of that happening with Audi products have considerably lessened in the last several years...and Consumer Reports verifies that.

dseag2 04-15-16 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by Aron9000 (Post 9450125)
I guess if you lease, you just budget to be forever in debt with a car payment. Now the upside is you have a new or nearly new car all the time, which is nice.

I cannot see why somebody would lease a used car, unless they want to REALLY live above their means. I mean go downmarket a little bit and lease a NEW Honda or Toyota. Leasing something like a 2013 Audi A4 or BMW 335i with 30k miles for 3 years, with only a bit of factory warranty is a HUGE gamble IMO.

Well, I'll give you an example. I've owned '10 and '11 Audi S5 Convertibles. They were fantastic cars and gave me no problems. My lease is up on my '15 S5 in December. I am going back to an S5 Convertible again. I've always leased brand new cars and I can afford it, but there is really no need for me to lease a brand new '17 S5 Convertible when there have essentially been no changes to the model since 2013. I can lease a nice, used 2014 or 2015 with low miles for less than a new one. If it has 10k miles, and I put on 7500 per year, it will have 32,500k miles when I turn it in and will still be under warranty.

And there is really no other NEW, cheaper car that compares in this category. Your logic of leasing a new Honda or Toyota doesn't apply in this case. I'm not going to go out and lease a new Buick Cascada or Infinifiti G37 Convertible (or Mustang or Camaro convertible for that matter) just because they are new. They don't compare to the S5.

Lastly, I own my home and have no mortgage payments so perpetual car payments don't bother me. I went the route of buying each car and I ended up trading after 3 years and taking big losses. Unless one keeps a car for 7-10 years, there is really no financial advantage. I'm not a fan of investing in a depreciating asset.

ryanSC300lover 04-15-16 07:40 PM

Great article Henry. I saw it elsewhere.

Funny thing is, TONS of guys are doing used LS460 lease lately on that part of the forum...

litesoarer 04-15-16 07:44 PM


Originally Posted by ryanSC300lover (Post 9450163)
Great article Henry. I saw it elsewhere.

Funny thing is, TONS of guys are doing used LS460 lease lately on that part of the forum...

I have little experience with leases (Money factor, residuals, balloon payment, excess mileage, etc), I didn't want to dip my toes on such a potentially expensive car. Too much potential to get ripped off.

This plus the mileage factor sealed the decision to buy for me.

rominl 04-15-16 08:48 PM


Originally Posted by ryanSC300lover (Post 9450163)
Great article Henry. I saw it elsewhere.

Funny thing is, TONS of guys are doing used LS460 lease lately on that part of the forum...

yup, i didn't know about it before but i think this really opens up a whole new big market

although i really have to see the numbers and see if it makes sense. from the used is250awd lease above, maybe it's me but i don't think it's that attractive?


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