peteharvey

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/28/bu...in-europe.html

MattyG, the biggest luxury car market in the world is the US.
The second biggest luxury car market in the world is Europe.

Unfortunately, on a "global" basis, Lexus cannot compete with the European car manufacturers because the second biggest luxury car market in the world is Europe, and Europe have special trade restrictions including limited quotas [ie capping the maximum number of Japanese imports], and the European Economic Community also have special import tariffs on Japanese cars.
The EEC wants to "protect" its auto manufacturing industry.

Thus, we say that the US luxury car market is a "neutral" nee "open" market, with no trade restrictions to Japanese imports relative to European imports.
However, the second biggest luxury car market Europe - is a "closed" market with special Japanese trade restrictions.

Benz, Beamer and Audi are able to sell in top numbers globally thanks to European import quotas and restrictions.
Take the European car import quotas and restrictions on Japanese cars away, and many European auto manufacturers could end up bankrupt!

There is also the "emerging" luxury car market of China.
Presently Lexus are deliberately NOT assembled in China.
However, Benz, Audi etc all assemble vehicles in China, thus they have an advantage in the emerging luxury car market of China.
Chinese import duties make Lexus more expensive than Chinese assembled BMW's and Audis etc.
In China, an imported Lexus IS costs 30% more than a locally assembled BMW 3 Series, and 35% more than a locally assembled Audi A4.
Read more below.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-frets-quality

Matt, you're trying too hard to discredit Lexus' 2015 US leading registration numbers...

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bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

do you believe the german 3 are bland?

grill really didn't work for him huh? article says: "Ugly front end styling" and "Fire those who approved that god-awful front grille" and "I’ve yet to find anyone who thinks it attractive and, personally, it appears to me as though the RX is sucking on a giant lemon. Reducing the grille size by half would be a good start to improving the looks." - i'd say his feelings were a bit stronger.

the pic from the article says it all. the car is actually nice looking especially in that darker color, except for the steam train plow on the front.

Fizzboy7

I am one who does not care for the new Lexus gaping snowplow fronts. However, lucky for Lexus, "different" and "outrageous" are vogue now. The times of conservative styling themes has come and gone. I believe this, coupled with legendary reliability, to be why Lexus is still rolling well with sales. Just look at the crazy snoot on the latest, best-selling Camry for similar proof.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I see some fresh Chinese immigrants in the USA driving the new Lexus designs like the RX, RC, and NX. It is interesting because Chinese did not and does not yet consider Lexus to be a top tier luxury brand, a lot of it has to do with tension with Japan but also the fact that they're not "European".

I think the unique styling definitely attracted their attention.

This point is interesting because it will help with brand recognition in the Mainland, where growth really matters in the next few decades.

And in case anybody might be offended by my post, I more than identify with Chinese. I work with them, ETC...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

do you consider any of the german luxury brands to be conservative?

mmarshall

Camrys have always sold well, with or without the spindle-front end. The car sells on its name and reputation, not styling. But, of course, that doesn't work for everybody. In fact, sometimes it's best NOT to go overboard on the styling. Ford found that out with the radical oval-themed 3Gen Taurus (I'm sure you'll remember it). Before then, the Taurus had intensely competed with the Camry and Accord every for first-place in U.S. passenger car-sales. That was lost when Ford blew it on the 3Gen styling....never to return.

MattyG

Not at all bitkahuna. I like the German 3's styling. They have set the tone and trends for a long time. Well proportioned and identifiable. Even the Bangle era saw the magnificent Z4.

LOL. Yeah he's not mincing words. But I didn't want to offend our hypersensitive Lexus sales/pr types this forum with a reviewer who's got a strong opinion. Right now they're busy accusing me of being a BMW hack. The big spindle may end up being walked back on lower end models, ala Acura' "beak".

peteharvey

Matt, you're the one who provided the post and link about BMW's motorcycle, sedan, and Mini sales before that post was removed/deleted from this thread.
You then provided the post quoted above about Germany's big three leading the world in global sales.

All I'm saying is that the American market is an open market, ie we're on neutral ground for fair comparison between Germans and Lexus sales.
On the other hand, the European market is a closed market, with special limited quotas and special import tariffs to deliberately limit the sales of Japanese cars in Europe to protect the European automotive industry - hence your quote about "global" sales is not on neutral ground.

MattyG

The reply to the post had to do with the distinction between the terms; "Beamer" vs my response about motorcycles vs sedans. Now this is being obfuscated about "motorcycle and sedan sales".

A knowledgeable person usually knows that referring to BMW sedans, coupes and M's as, "Beamers" is a sign of someone who doesn't distinguish between what the internet says, and what owners know.

Once again: a Bimmer is the family of sedans etc. The "Beamers" are the motorbikes. Trust me. My buddy had one. The Dakar.

Here's a thought: who on this forum is a salesperson, PR or associated individual who derives a benefit from a German car brand or maybe Japanese car brand. Full disclosure.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Folks, I've continued to prune posts with rude personal comments from this thread... don't want to close it but getting close. If you can't post without throwing a barb at another member, I'll strongly suggest you not push the post reply button.

Additionally, let's keep the topic of conversation on Luxury US Sales (not global) as the original post and article intended.

peteharvey

The OP Spwolf posted about Lexus number one registrations in the US for 2015.
Fine by me.
2000-11 Lexus was one.
Then Benz took over.
In 2014, Lexus got back to second.
Now Lexus 1st in regos.
All fine by me.

However, certain members began to denigrate that success by pointing out that Lexus sales were just SUV's with front wheel drive cross-platforms, rather than cars with genuine sporting ability.

But then BMW has plenty of SUV's, and their leading volume 2.0L 4 cylinders had little performance, and the new 5 and 3 Series use chassis that have diminished handling characteristics compared to their predecessors.

Then, another member claims that the "regular" BMW's use ordinary chassis, but the real M Sports like the M5 are the real handling cars.
But then I showed with five (5) links how the M5 is no longer the great handling car that it used to be.

Then the member digresses to "global sales", and I pointed out that the second biggest market in the world, the European market, is a "closed" market with import quotas and import tariffs on Japanese cars, hence it was not a level playing field for fair comparisons between Lexus and the Germans.

Now the member wants to know if I'm a sales rep etc?
I'm in health, and I have owned both Mercedes and Lexus.

I have always maintained that sales is only really useful for gross revenue, less expenses, for net profit calculations, and that sales does NOT necessarily equate to quality.
Sales is only used to imply quality.
In terms of overall quality, all the major makes are pretty much equal, but in different ways.
They are very neck and neck.

For example, I presently own a GS, but I wouldn't go as far to say that the Hyundai Genesis is hopeless at all.
In my eyes, both GS and Genesis are good, but in different ways.
Genesis may not have badge, styling, handling, or economy of GS, but Genesis does have space, ride, and refinement.
All humans, whether we are black, white or yellow are all equals.
Ditto the top luxury car marques.
It is silly to claim the M5 is better than the GS F, or the GS F is better than the M5; they are both equal, but in different ways.

Now Matt, are you in the BMW selling business?
Why do you show favouritism to BMW by continually putting down Lexus' 2015 US leading registrations?
Why don't you have a neutral view by just accepting that most of the top marques are neck and neck even Stevens?
Car design is a compromise, so one might be good at A, but the other will be good at B.
Why encourage two people to argue which is better between the M5 and the E63 till they're blue in the face?
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