situman

What else do you need other than knowing how fast you're going, where you're going and if you have enough to get there?

SW17LS

Technology and modern considerations have just run off and left you

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Cmon guys,this debate has outgrown its lifespan.

I'm more interested in discussion where we speculate how many people are going to pony up 100K for the car.
The RCF and GSF have revealed to me that customer don't want to pay a premium for Lexus performance. We enthusiasts begged for performance and now that its here no one want to pay for it. But people are asking for even more performance, which will cost even more.
Explain this to me.

Sulu

This was the intent of the Saab Night Panel:

Source

When driving at night, the Saab driver could choose to turn off the backlighting to all instrument panel gauges, EXCEPT for the most essential, the speedometer. This was to prevent overwhelming the driver (or the pilot, as this concept came from aviation) with bright stuff; the other gauges would, however, automatically turn back on if they reached critical conditions.

S2000toIS350

I think some of the issue here is that we (forum folks) tend to value the sport/performance aspects very highly and luxury is weighted lower (but still has to be there).

The LC value proposition is weighted the other way with luxury as the key and that is freaking out some folks.

The next time you are out on the road and see a 650i (the target market), have a look at the driver and how they drive. From what I have seen over the years, they tend to be at least in their later 40s and drive in a pretty well behaved manner in the left lane.

S2000toIS350

The RCF and GSF are having issues in the market because they are targeted for specific performance niches and have a raft of comparison issues

no 3 pedal
can't customize much
no dual clutch tranny
lower power than competition (GSF)
interior not on par (RCF)

UDel

I don't really care for digital gauges now. I was also making a argument for a vehicle with some collector factor like this rarer expensive coupe a digital screen for a speedo will likely take away some value and desirability in the future especially if it is having issues, does not work and cost a fortune/or is impossible to fix or replace, or the graphics/interface is embarrassingly outdated. Physical speedom/tachs always look good as long as they are tastefully done, rarely have issues, and are generally inexpensive and not difficult to fix or replace.

You can drive a car if the screen does not work but it kind of sucks not having a speedo/tach anymore along with so many other functions tied into that screen.

Some Buicks and Oldmobiles in the late 80's and 90's had info readout screens/touch screens that eventually failed in big numbers, they are almost impossible to fix or replace and it is very expensive if you can which along with the cars being shoddy has hammered any resale or desirability they had, it is a major issue with them even 10 years or more ago. The non functioning screens are a big eyesore, graphics and interface is extremely dated, can you imagine what would happen if some Ferrari's, Porsches, Mercedes, Lamborghini's had big info readout screens like those that had a bunch of problems, were almost impossible to fix/repair, have embarrassing outdated graphics/interfaces what it would do the values of those cars? It would hurt their value and be a eye sore and could lead to many of the features of the car no longer function anymore unless you get that screen fixed.

I am not talking about every day cars, car makers are going to shove screens for speedo/tachs on most cars once more makers start doing it and it becomes a thing just like the awful touchscreen trend for dashes replacing physical buttons but for cars with any collectibility factor I think there is a argument that they should stick with more analog gauges and consider how some of the decisions they are making now will age and affect collectibility/desirability in the future. I am not just talking about Lexus either, but other makers.

UDel

I think it also boils down to the Lexus performance models are just too expensive and people don't want to pay that kind of money for a Lexus or don't see the performance/hp worth the price they are charging. Lexus simply does not have the prestige or brand image to sell cars in that price range like the Germans do.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

what else do you need than 3 forward gears, manual seat controls, a rear view mirror and cloth seats?

the LC is a LUXURY COUPE. it's about excess. it should give visceral thrills to those who see and drive and ride in it. i believe it will actually do all those things. it's kind of a softer and more luxurious LFA. $100K or so for that is not unreasonable at all.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Remember when GS400 came out, when it got more power than any of the offering from MB/BMW/Audi, with similar luxury? That's what got me and lots of members here into Lexus.

Toys4RJill

Respectfully, I think you are out of touch with reality in your argument. Just give it some time, let Lexus make their reveal, perhaps there will be two different gauges available, thus your worries about collector status will be alleviated

G Star

iTrader: (2)

This is quite interesting, building up the sport wing of the brand isn't easy and these types of cars aren't huge sellers anyway. I like how Lexus went with the emotional driving experience but their interiors look too mechanical now, some of the F-sport steering wheels look more like a transformer than something on a luxury car.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I wish people would stop saying Lexus does not have the same prestige as the Germans. Its a higher end car with superior reliability, ride comfort and safety. It's residuals and long term appeal enable us to lease them at more aggressive pricing than the Germans. That seems to have tainted the brand. Cheaper to own often equates to "high price Toyota" to some people. I completely disagree. I take the trades from german car drivers. i hear their frustration with their German auto as they bring them to us in exchange for a more reliable and cheaper to own Lexus. I hear their frustration with being 15-20K upside down in their trade. We always have German brands in stock. I don't see many Lexus trades sitting on German lots.

Now for performance. It's true, Lexus performance is not like the Germans. The LFA proved Lexus can do it but it has been by choice not to compete with the Germans. Instead, Lexus has its own brand identity it wants to play in. Not chase horsepower levels for numbers no one is going to use. I see old farts driving AMG cars at the pace of a turtle. That doesn't cause me to want an AMG. I do want power and wish my RC350 had at least 350 horses. But chasing 500 hp doesn't make me swoon more than a car with beautiful handling, looks and some power.

I do like German cars because they are different and power is power. But to me, Lexus is the best car brand on earth and we Lexus enthusiast should do all we can to support it.

situman

Well clearly I'm referring to the amount of information on the gauges while driving That's completely different than what features should be included. After getting t-boned in my Lexus by some lady probably texting, catching Pokemon and singing to Taylor Swift, I can appreciate simplicity and less distractions.

situman

The stigma of prestiage won't go away until 1) Lexus stops playing the value game 2) Throw every engineering know how into their cars like thei 1st gen LS 3)Up the engine and power game 4) Heritage. Lexus needs to do something that's world beating and unforgettable. To give them their own everlasting identity. 5) Stop platform sharing with Toyota.

These days, what can one car company do that the other can't? It comes down to cost and how much the customer is willing to pay for a lesser nameplate with the same or better features.