tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

looks pretty good

mmarshall

IMO, though, young or old, one should not be making car purchase decisions on just how the front end looks. Nor should auto companies have to design controversial-looking vehicles or grilles just to sell them. That, to me, shows a basic lack of education on the part of those doing the buying. That's one reason why, when Consumer Reports tests a car, they very rarely even mention styling, unless it is something that, like a very low roofline or wide pillars, for example, will affect the car's utility and visibility.

SW17LS

The bottom line is, its the job of a company that designs a product to design a product that consumers want to buy, its not the consumers job to "get educated" and "live with styling that they don't want because the vehicle is a great vehicle". If the company who designed their product styles it so that they loose buyers, thats their fault.

I'm not saying Lexus has done this, evidence would point to a conclusion that they have not, but you're putting too much emphasis on the consumer to get their head around where the manufacturer wants it to be and it should be the other way around.

The consumer is the most important part of all of this. Without the consumer, theres no point in designing a vehicle.

Consumer Reports doesn't talk about styling because they are accustomed to reviewing dishwashers. A vehicle has a utility, but it is not for many people just the purchase of an appliance. It has to look a certain way and say something that the consumer who purchases it wants to say. There is a fashion to it. ESPECIALLY luxury cars. When someone buys a luxury car, they aren't just buying how it drives, how comfortable it is, how their heads fit when entering and exiting, they're buying how it looks and what it says about them. Younger buyers always are more style conscious than older buyers, hence what Lexus is doing.

If all anybody bought was utility we'd all be driving $18,000 Corollas.

Toys4RJill

That is a little rude and arrogant of you to be saying something like this. People should decide for themselves what they want, if they want the front end, GOOD for them. Some what style, some want performance, some what reliability, some want brand loyalty. It's up to the consumer to choose.

You seem to love the Impala, but from everyone I know including my sister, the brand new Impala is one boring car that a lot of people would rather spend their money elsewhere. Like SW15LS said, it would suck to live with a car that you really dont like.

mmarshall

You misunderstood my post. I agree people should make up their own minds. But I have a right to post my opinion (as was recently pointed out by someone else, this is a public forum). My opinion is that I think that many other things besides front-end styling are just as important in picking out a vehicle. I think that, no matter how beautiful or controversial the looks, what is under the skin of a vehicle is just a important, or more important, than the skin itself. That's not arrogance on my part....just a simple opinion, based on what I believe is common sense.

For the sixth time, Jill, I said the NEW Impala is an excellent design, most definitely NOT the old one. If your sister had a pre-2014, then I agree it is rental-grade.

SW17LS

I'm not sure where you think Jill said that people shouldn't make up their own minds originally...

Toys4RJill

You see, your opinion of the Impala is different than hers and mine. She had the new 2015 model that you oogle over. She didn't care for it at all, neither to do I. I prefer small cars like the Corolla or a Matrix over an Impala. I also like modern trends with the big grilles and a horizontal dash. My sister just wants a luxury badge as that what defines her decision and approval of what she drives. She has no idea what comes under an Impala and nor does she care, you could probably give it to her for free and she would not want the Impala and would rather pay a premium for an IS with an underpowered 2.5 that takes premium. Call her stupid? Nope, its her decision of why she likes what she likes.

mmarshall

As long as we're talking about apples/apples and not apples/oranges (in other words, the same car from the same -generation), then fine...i respect that.

No. I'm not calling her stupid. That's not my place to do that, and it would probably violate the posting rules of this forum. But I do disagree with her opinion, that's all. I'm not going to change mine, and she probably won't change hers. We can leave it at that.

As far as my "ogling" the Impala, there are a lot of vehicles that I personally like or have a high opinion of. But I'm also an objective person, and accept a vehicle's minus points as well as its plusses.

Fine. There are good sensible reasons for liking smaller cars....agility, ease of parking, low cost, better suited to urban environments, cheaper tire-replacements, often better gas mileage, etc....

No one is questioning that (at least, I certainly am not). And the Corolla, like the Verano, is a good car. My late mom, up till the time she passed away, had a Corolla Wagon she loved....I found it for her and helped her make the deal on it. I've had a lot of small cars myself......Mazda GLC/323/Protege, Toyota Tercel (as a second commuter-car), Saturn SL-2 (I loved its dent-resistant plastic body and other innovations), IS300, (which was small by Lexus standards), and a Toyota Celica. So it's not like you and I are talking from two entirely different worlds here.

dseag2

I'm not defending MMarshall's opinions, but I don't think his comments were rude or arrogant, and I don't see where he called your sister "stupid". Can we get back to the original topic?

BTW, I like the refresh of the MKZ. It looks more mainstream. I just think they lost the continuity of the original design.

I8ABMR

Damn . The front is a Jag jack !! Im surprised they havent complained

mmarshall

My guess, though, is that they'll sell more with the new Jag front end than with the old wing-grille. The old MKZ didn't seem to be a huge seller, even in this sales-rich D.C. area.

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with the basic wing-grille design, though. The new MKC seems to have decent sales with it. But the vertical wing/tooth-grilles on some of the older Lincolns were just plain awkward.

Matador

It's about time they abandoned the wing-grille. The new front end, though a total Jag rip-off, is a step in the right direction. I sat in the current/outgoing model today at the empty Lincoln booth of the local auto show and that center stack and interior just kills that car. And like everyone else has already said, a more compelling engine and drivetrain would do wonders to evoke an emotional response from the lineup similar to the ATS-V and CTS-V.

Toys4RJill

There is nothing wrong with the wing design, but effective marketing means that you have to go for it eventually with a change. You need to convince those who would not buy the car to buy it with a change. It was not hard to spot that the MKC/MKZ lack the styling to really get a response from the public. This new front is excellent even though I really like the wings on the MKZ, and Navigator.

Right now, luxury cars are going after the style and the word "Experience" is what everyone is wanting to be after.

dseag2

They gave the MKZ a simlar front end to the Lincoln Continental concept car, so I guess we can expect to see this on future refreshed Lincoln models.

Toys4RJill

Absolutely.

(And I think they better get that front end on the MKC/MKX if Lincoln hopes to sell those vehicles for the price they are asking, especially the MKX at 60k)