My0gr81

Some people are happy to over pay if it means everyone else overpaid too. We are turning into a society of followers not leaders.

The no haggle pricing put control right at the distributor/dealer level. Pricing would only drop if the product was a major flop and no one bought. It also ensures that the real market value pricing is never known as no one got the steepest discounted price they SHOULD have been able to sell at.

SW17LS

Unfortunately I agree with you, and I think that sentiment comes across in this quote:

The answer is because his neighbor earned the deal he got with his research, skill, and effort. He pays more because he isn't interested in putting forth the effort to earn a similar deal.

If its that troubling...just pay MSRP. People do. If everybody has a certain discount off MSRP then doesn't that price just become MSRP? Why so worried about what other people are able to get if one isn't interested in doing whats necessary to get that deal?

tex2670

Correct. Many people believe, or rationalize --whatever you want to call it--that the time wasted in the research, haggle, play one dealer off another process isn't worth the $$ savings in the end--time is money, and if you have to invest all that time into the process, well, what is a person's lost time worth? I'll just take a "good deal" and not waste a lot of time and effort in the process. This is no longer just in the car purchasing business--travel sites like Orbitz and Travelocity perform the same function--if you just go directly to a hotel website and book, you may not get the best room rate, but the more you have to search around, the more time is "wasted."

I like that person, because the more of those people, the more room I have to get a truly "good" deal.

tex2670

I encountered a "no haggle" Toyota dealer when I was looking at a Highlander in '12. Their price was the highest of 12 dealers I reached out to--and those 11 other dealers' prices were their "opening" bids, without negotiation at all.

chikoo

That is the Ron Johnson line of thinking.

hint: jcp

SW17LS

I've had the same experience many times.

mmarshall

The main problem with the question of haggling vs. no-haggling, though is that, in most cases, one cannot know exactly what the dealership paid for any one given vehicle....you can only approximate it at best. Check five different sources, both on and off the Internet, and you will likely get five different "factory invoices" for the same vehicle. Heck, for that matter, one can sometimes get five different invoice figures even at at the same dealership, for the same vehicle, depending on what salesperson, manager, buisness-manager, or customer-service rep one speaks to. The manufacturer web-site's Build-Your-Own feature, of course is worthless, because it shows list prices, not wholesale prices. Even Consumer Reports, which provides a dealer-cost figure for its customers, can't necessarily be depended on to give the true dealer cost on a vehicle, because there are simply too many different factors involved, both at the dealer and factory level. That's why, when I shop for myself (or help someone else shop)...my experience is that, in most cases, the best way to go is to just simply deal the best you can in a reasonable amount of time, sign the papers, and go. And don't lose sleep over it that night worrying about if the Jones'es or the Smiths down the street got a better deal or not. Life's too short.

One system, though, that I particularly like, is the No-Haggle Internet-Discount. In the D.C. area where I live, the Fitzgerald chain of dealerships pioneered that, IMO, it is one of the best and simplest ways of doing business.....it gives both a reasonable discount to the customer and a reasonable amount of profit to the dealership, without endless bargaining in a Middle-Eastern Bazzar-type of atmosphere. Almost everyone I have ever shopped with at Fitzgerald (mostly for Hyundais and Subarus) has been happy with the way they write up the deals. Usually, there are two Internet Discount prices, a standard, lower one, and one slightly higher that includes some extra maintenance like oil changes (if the manufacturer itself does not provide free service). You simply choose the one you want.

SW17LS

Thats just the thing, you really don't need to know what they paid. I'm not looking to rob a dealership of all their profit. I'm a salesman, I know how it is we all have to make a living and keep our lights on. When I buy or lease a car I do my research beforehand and I know what a good deal is and what an okay deal is. Invoice doesn't really matter to me. If they make $10k god speed as long as I know what I paid is at the bottom or close to the bottom of what those particular cars sell for. With a lease I make sure I have the rack rate MF and residual. I also make sure I know all the available rebates.

So if I'm getting a top 10% deal, getting all the rebates on top of that deal...and I'm getting the rack rate MF and residual...I'm happy. Simple.

How do I find out what a model is going for? I read the forums, I look online, I watch what dealers are discounting them to on internet deals, etc. I contact multiple dealers and let them know what I want, I get offers, I shop those offers back and forth between those dealers, and I select the best one and the one I know fits that criteria. Takes me maybe an hour of email work together, the research I enjoy, and an hour maybe at the dealer signing papers.

As for Fitzgerald, thats an example I will use. I KNOW I can save at least $1,000 off of any Fitzgerald price with 30 minutes over email. So...unless $1,000 is not worth 30 minutes of your time (I don't make $2,000 per hour) then I don't know why you would buy a car from Fitzgerald. I have a buddy who has a Hyundai Santa Fe thats been at Fitzgerald for 6 weeks trying to replace the sunroof. They keep breaking stuff, broke the windshield, broke all the clips, delivered it back several times with stuff not hooked up. So the "Fitz Way" doesn't impress me at all, certainly wouldn't pay more for it.

My0gr81

Doing research about features, specs and options should already be part of any vehicle purchase, so including the pricing in that research is negligible incremental effort. It avoids having someone buy a CT thinking it will have more room inside than a Matrix, when the specs clearly show there is a big difference in interior volume of space. It also sets "expectations" on what you're going to get inside that box of chocolate.

mmarshall

[QUOTE=SW15LS;9434167]
I can't vouch for Fitzgerald service, not having any direct experience with it....your friend might very well be right. But most of those I know who have shopped there (with or without me) have been quite happy with their shops overall. And, as far as getting another $1000 off, that was exactly my point...no matter what you buy, or where you buy it, somebody is going to say that they could (or did) do better elsewhere....even probably on your price. I'm sure people have probably come up to you and said "That's nice, Steve, but I did (or could) do better somewhere else.". So, IMO, that's why I said it is simply not worth worrying about. If one doesn't like the price they get at Fitzgerald (or anyplace else), they can always go somewhere else, although one might not find just what they are looking for at any particular dealership, and trading vehicles in stock around between dealerships exposes them to road-scratches and/or possible accident damages.

SW17LS

That's just it though, I do enough research on this just for fun to know, and when I'm shopping for a car myself I certainly know what is and is not a good deal for a car. I have a high level of confidence that if somebody comes up to me and says "I could have gotten another thousand off" they're likely full of crap. I know the numbers, and knowing the numbers in this day and age isn't hard.

True, if someone doesn't like the price at Fitzgerald they can go elsewhere and negotiate. That's why we don't want all no haggle dealers. If all the dealers were no haggle like Fitzgerald...there would be nowhere else to go...and guess what? The prices wouldn't even be as good as they are at Fotzgerald now because here would be no competition amongst dealers. Where there is competition the consumer wins...all the time,.,every time. No competition is bad for consumers.

Lexus tries to sell you on a "better process" when what they want is more of your money. That's all they care about.

situman

Makes it easy for me as a consumer. If I don't like the pricing, I can simply walk out or hang up the phone and not have to think about it again. Possibly move on to another brand with better pricing. Pretty simple. I think what Lexus is getting at is they want to have customers will buy not based on price but people that just walk in and buy whatever they want without any regards to pricing. Weed out the poor folks like me that waits for a great deal or massive discounts.

yakim

One appears to be in Appleton WI

litesoarer

Good, I can't do most cheese anyway.

rogzballz

iTrader: (9)

If you need to haggle, then you probably shouldn't be looking at a new lexus anyways ...