The future of car engines / pricing
08-03-15, 06:32 AM
#1
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The future of car engines / pricing
I find it interesting with car prices on what has higher value.
1 - Bigger vehicles cost more than smaller vehicles - understandable since you are using more materials
2 - You pay for horsepower - a 300 HP engine costs more than a 200 HP engine although the more powerful engine is less efficient and you will pay more for gas
3 - Hybrids cost more than conventional engines
I find 3 interesting since hybrids are more efficient and the US Govt subsidies have gone away for consumers. They now only exist for EV models (ie. Nissan Leaf or Tesla)
I think the future model will be a combination of 2 and 3.
Being a Lexus board I will use Toyota tech as an example for what i see happening -
- Eco hybrid will be the cheapest model with a Prius type engine with minimal horsepower. Could produce potentially 50 miles per gallon.
- Sport Hybrid turbo / DI will be the 2nd model. This is a model that uses the hybrid technology for city type of stop and go traffic and for cruising but the 224+ hp engine controls the vehicle at all other times.
Using Direct Injection, Turbo, or the Honda tech of dropping to 2 or 3 cylinders can also help this. I think the Infiniti Q50 hybrid has tech similar to what I am describing. BMW also has an active hybrid with 300 + hp. Could produce potentially 40 miles per gallon.
- Regular engine - This will be using similar non-hybrid tech with output similar to what some of the top line vehicles produce today (ie. Lexus NX 200T/ RX). Could produce potentially 25-35 miles per gallon.
Basically I am saying you pay for engine performance and lack of efficiency. If you want to burn fossil fuels and have higher emissions then you get taxed for it.
While driving my NX today in some local traffic and seeing my mpg since last refill drop I was thinking that my 235 hp engine combined with hybrid tech for city traffic or cruising can be nice and probably lift the avg mpg on my vehicle from around 25 to 30 or higher.
1 - Bigger vehicles cost more than smaller vehicles - understandable since you are using more materials
2 - You pay for horsepower - a 300 HP engine costs more than a 200 HP engine although the more powerful engine is less efficient and you will pay more for gas
3 - Hybrids cost more than conventional engines
I find 3 interesting since hybrids are more efficient and the US Govt subsidies have gone away for consumers. They now only exist for EV models (ie. Nissan Leaf or Tesla)
I think the future model will be a combination of 2 and 3.
Being a Lexus board I will use Toyota tech as an example for what i see happening -
- Eco hybrid will be the cheapest model with a Prius type engine with minimal horsepower. Could produce potentially 50 miles per gallon.
- Sport Hybrid turbo / DI will be the 2nd model. This is a model that uses the hybrid technology for city type of stop and go traffic and for cruising but the 224+ hp engine controls the vehicle at all other times.
Using Direct Injection, Turbo, or the Honda tech of dropping to 2 or 3 cylinders can also help this. I think the Infiniti Q50 hybrid has tech similar to what I am describing. BMW also has an active hybrid with 300 + hp. Could produce potentially 40 miles per gallon.
- Regular engine - This will be using similar non-hybrid tech with output similar to what some of the top line vehicles produce today (ie. Lexus NX 200T/ RX). Could produce potentially 25-35 miles per gallon.
Basically I am saying you pay for engine performance and lack of efficiency. If you want to burn fossil fuels and have higher emissions then you get taxed for it.
While driving my NX today in some local traffic and seeing my mpg since last refill drop I was thinking that my 235 hp engine combined with hybrid tech for city traffic or cruising can be nice and probably lift the avg mpg on my vehicle from around 25 to 30 or higher.
08-03-15, 08:13 AM
#2
Take a classic example of the popular MINI. 4-banger compacts that typically go for $30k or even more based on customization and amenities. All those modifications and electronics aren't cheap.
And then look at roadsters/convertibles. Even a small and efficient engine tacked on a roofless car will be expensive.
Finally, some high performance engines with poor fuel efficiency can be cheap. Small pick-up trucks and off-road vehicles like Jeep come to mind...
08-03-15, 10:14 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
I find it interesting with car prices on what has higher value.
1 - Bigger vehicles cost more than smaller vehicles - understandable since you are using more materials
2 - You pay for horsepower - a 300 HP engine costs more than a 200 HP engine although the more powerful engine is less efficient and you will pay more for gas
3 - Hybrids cost more than conventional engines
I find 3 interesting since hybrids are more efficient and the US Govt subsidies have gone away for consumers. They now only exist for EV models (ie. Nissan Leaf or Tesla)
I think the future model will be a combination of 2 and 3.
Being a Lexus board I will use Toyota tech as an example for what i see happening -
- Eco hybrid will be the cheapest model with a Prius type engine with minimal horsepower. Could produce potentially 50 miles per gallon.
- Sport Hybrid turbo / DI will be the 2nd model. This is a model that uses the hybrid technology for city type of stop and go traffic and for cruising but the 224+ hp engine controls the vehicle at all other times.
Using Direct Injection, Turbo, or the Honda tech of dropping to 2 or 3 cylinders can also help this. I think the Infiniti Q50 hybrid has tech similar to what I am describing. BMW also has an active hybrid with 300 + hp. Could produce potentially 40 miles per gallon.
- Regular engine - This will be using similar non-hybrid tech with output similar to what some of the top line vehicles produce today (ie. Lexus NX 200T/ RX). Could produce potentially 25-35 miles per gallon.
Basically I am saying you pay for engine performance and lack of efficiency. If you want to burn fossil fuels and have higher emissions then you get taxed for it.
While driving my NX today in some local traffic and seeing my mpg since last refill drop I was thinking that my 235 hp engine combined with hybrid tech for city traffic or cruising can be nice and probably lift the avg mpg on my vehicle from around 25 to 30 or higher.
1 - Bigger vehicles cost more than smaller vehicles - understandable since you are using more materials
2 - You pay for horsepower - a 300 HP engine costs more than a 200 HP engine although the more powerful engine is less efficient and you will pay more for gas
3 - Hybrids cost more than conventional engines
I find 3 interesting since hybrids are more efficient and the US Govt subsidies have gone away for consumers. They now only exist for EV models (ie. Nissan Leaf or Tesla)
I think the future model will be a combination of 2 and 3.
Being a Lexus board I will use Toyota tech as an example for what i see happening -
- Eco hybrid will be the cheapest model with a Prius type engine with minimal horsepower. Could produce potentially 50 miles per gallon.
- Sport Hybrid turbo / DI will be the 2nd model. This is a model that uses the hybrid technology for city type of stop and go traffic and for cruising but the 224+ hp engine controls the vehicle at all other times.
Using Direct Injection, Turbo, or the Honda tech of dropping to 2 or 3 cylinders can also help this. I think the Infiniti Q50 hybrid has tech similar to what I am describing. BMW also has an active hybrid with 300 + hp. Could produce potentially 40 miles per gallon.
- Regular engine - This will be using similar non-hybrid tech with output similar to what some of the top line vehicles produce today (ie. Lexus NX 200T/ RX). Could produce potentially 25-35 miles per gallon.
Basically I am saying you pay for engine performance and lack of efficiency. If you want to burn fossil fuels and have higher emissions then you get taxed for it.
While driving my NX today in some local traffic and seeing my mpg since last refill drop I was thinking that my 235 hp engine combined with hybrid tech for city traffic or cruising can be nice and probably lift the avg mpg on my vehicle from around 25 to 30 or higher.
Yes you pay for HP, however the people who pay for HP usually have the money so it kind a becomes a wash.
On the other hand, those who do not have tons of money, Cruze or Corolla buyers are usually the type that do not want to pay for HP. This is why a diesel Cruze will likely not do very well.
I believe Toyota tried the 2-3 option with the RX400, GS450h and the LS600h which did not really do all that well. But there was a big price premium there.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 08-03-15 at 10:17 AM.
08-03-15, 12:34 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
2 - You pay for horsepower - a 300 HP engine costs more than a 200 HP engine although the more powerful engine is less efficient and you will pay more for gas
3 - Hybrids cost more than conventional engines
08-03-15, 01:20 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
Generally true, but size alone doesn't necessarily mean more materials. The Buick Verano and Chrysler 200, for example, are two small-to-medium-size semi-luxury sedans that both use a lot of added sound insulation and have a fair amount of equipment standard on them. And some entry-level full-size pickup trucks can be half a block long, but still be as stark and basic as the inside of a taxi. .
The big weight differences comes in the change of engines and sizes. V6 over I4 or V8 in place of V6. Also, don't forget that transmission weight usually (but not always) increases the weight. We also have to not forget that safety features and option equipment makes a fairly large difference. Usually car manufacturers will add the extra features along with the larger engine, this will in effect increase the price.
08-03-15, 01:56 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Jill, you need to do some more research on the Verano if you are going to keep posting on it.
I don't mean to be rude, but you clearly do not understand this car or its origins. Hey, I've made some posts myself sometimes on vehicles that needed correcting....we all have.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-03-15 at 02:01 PM.
08-03-15, 02:08 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
The Verano is heavier than the Cruze not simply because it is a premium version with more equipment, but because it is based more on an Opel design than the Cruze, which comes more from Daewoo. Opel designs tend to be heavy because of the way they do their frames and unibodies....the Buick Regal, also Opel-based, tends to be heavy.
Jill, you need to do some more research on the Verano if you are going to keep posting on it.
I don't mean to be rude, but you clearly do not understand this car or its origins. Hey,
made some posts myself sometimes on vehicles that needed correcting....we all have.
Jill, you need to do some more research on the Verano if you are going to keep posting on it.
I don't mean to be rude, but you clearly do not understand this car or its origins. Hey,
made some posts myself sometimes on vehicles that needed correcting....we all have.
From what I have been told, the Cruze is the base for the Verano and Opel which all use the same body, as well as parts.
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08-03-15, 02:12 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Opel's do not use frames, they only use a unibody set up. While older cars from the past used frames, today, frames are usually reserved for large trucks and SUVs.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 08-03-15 at 02:20 PM.
08-03-15, 02:19 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
Oh I hate to get into this, but...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._buick_verano/
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-verano-review
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/buick-verano/
Verano shares its Delta platform with the Chevrolet Cruze and Volt, and more closely with the Opel/Vauxhall Astra.
And while it shares GM’s “global compact vehicle” (formerly known as Delta II) architecture with the Chevy Cruze and Volt, other than basic size, there’s no hint of family resemblance. Most of the exterior sheetmetal and chassis tuning came the long way through the GM hierarchy—from the Opel Astra.
It’s not known which Buick would get an oil burner but the likely candidate is the Verano, which shares a platform with Chevy’s Cruze, which is now available with a four cylinder turbo diesel in the U.S. The Opel Astra, even more closely related to the Verano, already offers a 1.9 liter CTDI diesel in Europe.
08-03-15, 02:22 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
08-03-15, 03:00 PM
#12
Lexus Champion
^^^ I was just thinking about this. Take the 2GR-FE engine, for example. If the only application for that engine were the V6 Camry, it would be a much more expensive engine option than it currently is. By putting it in countless other vehicles (Venza, Sienna, RX, Highlander, ES, Avalon, etc.) the cost comes down.
Development cost is another huge consideration. It takes engineering dollars (NRE - Non Recurring Engineering) to develop those new engines. Those development costs get pushed down to the consumers.
Development cost is another huge consideration. It takes engineering dollars (NRE - Non Recurring Engineering) to develop those new engines. Those development costs get pushed down to the consumers.
08-03-15, 03:04 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
^^^ I was just thinking about this. Take the 2GR-FE engine, for example. If the only application for that engine were the V6 Camry, it would be a much more expensive engine option than it currently is. By putting it in countless other vehicles (Venza, Sienna, RX, Highlander, ES, Avalon, etc.) the cost comes down.
Development cost is another huge consideration. It takes engineering dollars (NRE - Non Recurring Engineering) to develop those new engines. Those development costs get pushed down to the consumers.
Development cost is another huge consideration. It takes engineering dollars (NRE - Non Recurring Engineering) to develop those new engines. Those development costs get pushed down to the consumers.
08-03-15, 03:07 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Yes very true. But you still pay for more HP and larger engines which is usually packaged with more options. That being said, the larger engines also benefit from economies of scale as well.
08-03-15, 03:13 PM
#15
Lexus Champion
As for Edmunds:
The 2011 Regal was the first Opel-based model in Buick's product line. That was followed by the 2012 Verano sedan, a version of the Opel Astra. This past February Buick dealers started selling the subcompact Encore crossover, which is based on the Opel Mokka.