Fizzboy7

It's the word heard and known around here (just look at this one thread alone), in magazines, and on the street. The CT is just okay, but not great. If it were greater, Lexus could sell many more than the current numbers. Personally, I've lived with one for a few months and I did not feel it represented the brand like the other models do. Yes, it's affordable, gets good mileage, and can hold a lot in back. But it lacks luxury, refinement, and sportiness. Again, just how many more units could they move if all those boxes were checked off?

ydooby

+999999

Lexus needs to rid itself of its cheap volume car maker mentality from its Toyota roots and start viewing itself as a premium car maker and build cars that will add to its image as a premium car maker. People will never view Lexus as a true premium brand until Lexus treats itself as such.

Lexus should get rid of Lentz ASAP and hire someone who actually sees the long-term big picture rather than short-term profits. The big picture should be about building Lexus as a proper premium brand through making actually premium vehicles. Even if those premium models don't make any money by themselves they will get people to LUST over Lexus cars and bring people to Lexus showrooms. Only when Lexus has such a brand image can it THEN start whoring out cars based on cheap platforms like MB and BMW only recently start doing (and even then MB and BMW still give those cars the proper premium powertrain and top luxury/tech options).

SW17LS

They aren't going to cancel the ES guys lol. You talk as if Lexus has a problem...it doesn't. Sales are great. At the end of the day it's about selling cars and that's what they do.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

The ES350 is not from the Camry platform anymore. It's based on the Avalon platform. Yes, that is better and does make a difference.
From a salesman's view, it's stupid to get rid of a car that sells as much as the ES350. Not everyone likes a RWD sport sedan like the GS. Nor do they want to pay for something they don't want or need. I sell ES350's to older people, to younger people with families, to people that just want a reliable, smooth riding luxury car without paying more than their budget.
The CT would be so much better with more space and better quality interiors. But they aren't so bad now. Again, from a salespersons view, we need most a true 3-row SUV and another coupe. Something slightly bigger but with more power and luxury. A CL and 650i rival ( I know the CL is now the S coupe).
We could actually keep our offerings the same and still do well but standing still is never a formula for long term success.

LexBob2

The ES does about 35% of division's car volume. Unlikely that it's going away.

spwolf

you are mixing personal feelings about the car with sales... CT200h was #1 seller in its class in the USA while others still sold competitors (hatchbacks), and one of the best selling Lexus vehicles worldwide... so sales are good.

In general, all vehicles do better more expensive they are... thats why LS is best representation of the brand while CT is "the worst"... same goes for X1 vs 7 or A class vs S class.

spwolf

MB/Audi/BMW are "whoring" their brands a lot more than Lexus, and nobody cares. So post like this, while in good nature, are very delusional about car industry work reality.

Someone driving halogen.lighted A class with hubcaps, cloth seats and 90hp engine from Renault Clio, does not really care that there is A45 AMG... Neither should you.

In fact, if anything, Lexus should disregard your type of thinking that they have adapted in Europe, and offer ES300h everywhere in the world. ES300h is far better equipped and engined than average purchased fleet A4 for instance, and it has nothing to be ashamed of. Base-mid spec models that are usually purchased by fleets in Germany (more than 70% of the sales for A4) are very different than expensive RS4.

So lets hope ES300h next time around gets offered everywhere in the world, and let customers decide what they want to purchase.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

I personally think Lexus made a mistake by skipping plug-in technology but I generally agree with most of the types of decisions that they've made thus far. Can't wait for the Lexus three row cross over, they really need to compete with the Benz GL.

Found this interview by Lexus Enthusiast pretty interesting. I think they are going to release an epic LS.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2015/05/...generation-ls/

Vladi

They missed it cause they don't have it. Today I am certain that much of the alternative drivetrain Toyota is building is primarily for the headlines and long term reputation. They hit the bulls eye with 2nd gen Prius and since then they did very mediocre job to improve upon it. Now with FCV they are looking for another Prius like boom.

ydooby

As I said, nobody cares now because these brands have already built a well-earned reputation of consistently making cars that deserve a premium badge for decades. It works from the top-down, not from the bottom-up. Once people perceive these brands as proper premium brands and aspire to be an owner of these brands, THEN these brands can start milking the perception and whoring themselves to no end without risking much damage to that perception--it's when people would drive a stripped A-Class just to be proud that they "own a Mercedes".

Lexus has no such luxury, coming directly from a mainstream car maker. They, more than those European brands, need to do it the hard and proper way, by building consistently premium and lust-worthy cars and distance itself from Toyota and its volume car making mentalities. They need to remember why the brand was created, and why their cars are not sold as Toyotas. They'll need to go through such short-term pain by selling exclusively premium cars to be able to eventually reap the rewards like MB and BMW do now in the long term. Otherwise Lexus will never be able to move $60k+ cars like MB and BMW can and will always have to settle for selling cars with much lower margins. Toyota was way too hasty in wanting the Lexus division to make profits on its own by introducing the barely upgraded Camry way too early. With the cash reserves Toyota has had Lexus could've afforded to sell exclusively the LS, the GS, the SC, the IS and a GS-based LSUV for at least a decade or two and make Lexus synonymous with high-end car, before introducing models based on cheap volume cars. Alas, Toyota had no one with such a long-term vision for the Lexus brand, and what damage was done by the ES and the RX have already been done and, short of starting a new brand, it may be really hard to overcome that image deficit now.

mmarshall

Actually, they do have it on a small scale if you include the technology in the Toyota's Prius Extended-Range Plug-in. If Lexus wanted to, that system could probably be adapted to the CT, as one step above the CT's standard hybrid system.

Matador

I'm starting to feel like the only guy not raised in a 7 passenger vehicle...

Fizzboy7

Okay, let's remove my personal feelings about the CT, remove all magazine's continual ho-hum reviews, and remove the hundreds of negative comments in this very forum and strictly talk about numbers...

#1 seller means little. And compared to what today? We are talking the U.S. here. There's really nothing else out there that's a "luxury hybrid hatchback." So yeah, it's going to rank as number one more or less by default. And 14k-17k units per year is scraps, especially for a volume company like Lexus. This category should be the most accessible due to the entry price, yet it has some of the lowest numbers of the brand. You have to look at the bigger picture. How many more could they be selling if the CT hit all the core marks: luxury, sport, and refinement? How many more could they be selling if it were a body style America actually craved (sedan)? I guarantee you A LOT more sales would surface. Don't think Mr. Lentz is not already aware of this and working hard to assure the next version brings more to the pot.

mmarshall

I'm not sure I agree on the numbers. I think the main problem with the CT is not so much that it is a hatchback in a land of sedan-lovers, but that it is simply too small to wear a Lexus badge. The short wheelbase, low height (which means lack of suspension-travel), light weight, and lack of insulation from the small size all contribute to its relative lack of riding comfort.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i can't imagine it being a good move for lexus to remove ES. same with RX