Car redesign vs heavy refresh
 

Just wondering what most of you would rather have. I'm not exactly against a heavy refresh to a design I really like.

1. A complete redesign with all new engines, design, interiors and parts?

Or...

2. A very heavy refresh such a Tacoma, LS460, Camry.

I ask this question because I believe my 2014 Corolla was a very heavy refresh in that the interior and body were all new but the powertrain and chassis were not. The car probably is a full redesign but there were a lot of parts that were carryovered.

In exchange for the same engine, chassis and mechanicals I got new features such as LED lights, vehicle customisation, and available features that usually are not available at this price point (auto up windows, heated cloth seats, available climate control (I didn't get it) and more.

I also got refinement that I never thought I would ever get at this price point and I believe I got the features and refinement at the expense of a carryover engine and chassis.

What do all of you think? I am really excited about the new Tacoma and I really love the current LS460,

I guess, like everything else, it all depends.

You get a well established powertrain. Sometimes, with a new engine, etc, comes hiccups or growing pains of getting the kinks out. But if it's really just a total "refresh", you don't have to take a chance buying the first model year of the car.

To me, though, there is a real negative for those that are coming from the same car. I have a 2nd Gen IS, and there's no way I'd get the 3rd Gen. I don't love the styling, although I'm coming around. But there's no way, for me, that I'm going to "upgrade" my car with one with the EXACT same engine, HP, tranny, etc. If I'm getting something "new", it should really be new compared to what I have. That may be a minority view--and if I was shopping for a more mainstream car like a Corolla, I might not feel the same way. And I'm sure there are many people who feel that familiarity is a bonus, not a detriment.

Ok, so is the same 2.5/3.5 the reason why you would not upgrade? What if it was the same engine better a different transmission ?

Depends on the chassis.

When I think "redesign", I think of changing the chassis, not just body panels or engines. "Refresh" maintains the same chassis but with new skin, powertrains, electronics, materials, and/or even suspension changes.

If the frame of the car is well balanced, sound, and reliable; then only a refresh would be sufficient.

Most of Toyota's most stable products live through a minimum of two generations (read Camry, Corolla, LS-Line, etc), but some like the Land Cruiser has lasted several iterations throughout the past few decades using the same chassis.

Personally, I would heavily trust a refreshed model, such as the current Camry, Land Cruiser, and LS-Line. Even certain models such as the Venza or IS-Line are based on then-available chassis that had already proven their reliability and durability.

depends on specific car and its position in the marketplace - competitiveness.

Guess it would depend on if either was an improvement over the old, because in some instances maybe safety or technology gets better but to compensate for the price the material quality goes down. The 4.5LS while a dynamic and technological improvement, the powertrain no matter how tried and true is missing at least 40 ponies, I'd rather wait for the 5LS. Same thing for the 2GX, a 4.6L V8 putting out 301hp in this day to me is just wrong. The IS/RC/GS 3.5 I think is still venerable, however I've driven this motor for 7 years now. I'd have no problem getting one of these cars again but the prospect of something new is enticing. Of course with a full redesign there are seemingly more variables of something to go wrong than a heavy refresh which supposedly improves upon the current.

Less is more. Nice statement :thumbup:

On a lower positioned car tried and true may be the better way to go, but on the higher tier ones we 'want it all' meaning the updates to continually be current and on par if not class leading

For whatever reason, I really liked the refreshes on vehicles like the LS, LX, Tundra, and now Tacoma more than I liked the original model.

That's the point though is it not, to improve upon the original. Sounds like Toyota/Lexus is doing what you like (overall) :p

So, car world knows FMC - Full Model Change and MMC - Minor Model Change.

Tacoma is FMC, LS, LX and Tundra were MMC. Sure, LS was unusually big MMC but still MMC. Camry and Yaris were also more than usual MMCs.

Platform itself does not matter... FMC always feels like completely different vehicle because they spent a lot of money and engineering hours on development.

only one rule-

If it's ugly, redesign it.

Those of us who lease may not have much of a choice. Your choice is also limited if you want to wait for a new engine. Toyota's model cycles typically run 5 years whereas engine cycles seem to be running about 10 years.

But even if a full model change retains the engine from the previous generation, there is the possibility that there were changes elsewhere in the drivetrain; and there may be tweeks to the engine to improve efficiency. The 2014 Corolla, for example, retained the 2ZR-FE 1.8-litre engine from the previous generation, but the old 4-speed automatic did not get renewed (except for the base CE trim, which nobody buys), swapping in a CVT in its place. And the 2014 Corolla LE ECO model has a new engine (at least by North American standards), gaining the 2ZR-FAE engine with Valvematic.

And a full model change feels different enough in driving characteristics -- none of the 4 Camrys I owned drove the same as the previous model -- that they are truly different cars. I would not hesitate to drive the new model (even if I did not lease).

If they retuned the engine, gave it more HP, and added an 8 speed transmission, I might be interested. But the 3G IS is *exactly* the same--not even 1 more HP. I've had my car 8 years--I don't want to feel like I'm still driving the same thing if I get a new car.

No one is forcing you to stay with the same car when your lease is up. Isn't that the point? If I was leasing, and my lease was up and the car I had was essentially the same as what I was turning in, I'd be inclined to look to another car company. But that's just me, and I realize that there are people out there that just want exactly what they have. My parents love the CRV, and for a while had an '07 and an '09, just in different colors. The '09 had auto climate control--but otherwise, they were exactly the same.

Not exactly the same, they have been tweaking it so 3IS is whupping BMW 3 series now in ways that the 2IS cannot, even with exact same engine and power ... Having said that, I think the 3IS is ugly and the 2IS looks much better , maybe even the best looking entry level luxury sports sedan among its contemporaries ...

They may have tuned the suspension, but I'm not going to the track, or drag racing anyone at lights. On most days, I'm not going to feel the difference.

I also hate the 3IS snout, so it was just no deal for me. As far as looks go, the ATS (in Performance or Premium trim with the LEDs) is probably my favorite.