European Air Worse Than Beijing at times, rethinking Diesels
09-22-14, 09:48 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
European Air Worse Than Beijing at times, rethinking Diesels
There's a lot of talk about so-called clean diesel, which in North America means any diesel that meets tailpipe emissions standards that went into effect seven years ago.
Those standards, known as Tier II, Bin 5, are among the strictest in the world--and considerably tougher than the European standards in force over that period.
Europe, where roughly half the new cars are sold with diesel engines (it varies considerably by country), has long been held up by diesel advocates as a model for how the U.S. could significantly reduce its fuel consumption.
Diesel combustion is more efficient than gasoline combustion, as a rule, and many diesel-engined passenger vehicles prove to get higher real-world fuel economy than the ratings under U.S. EPA test regimens--often not the case for hybrid vehicles.
But only next year will Europe move to exhaust-emission standards as tough as those in the U.S. (known as the Euro 6 standard).
Meanwhile, it turns out that diesel trucks and buses cause significant air pollution in European cities.
In London, for instance, the degree of nitrous oxides in the famous Oxford Street shopping district was fully three times the maximum recommended by the EU.
More startling, the NOx levels in London were even higher than those in the legendarily awful air of Beijing, according to a report issued in July.
Paris, too, has had numerous smog alerts--we experienced one last week while attending a workshop there--and reductions in car travel as a result appear to have lowered harmful airborne emissions, at least temporarily.
The facts about European cities came in a Navigant Research blog post that looked at the role of highly-polluted city air in driving more stringent emissions regulations for vehicles and industry.
So by all means purchase a diesel vehicle if you want to get better fuel economy and make the most of your transportation dollar.
Assuming, of course, that the higher purchase cost will be offset by lower fuel expenses, and especially if you drive long distances at highway speeds.
But if you don't want to worsen the emissions in your town or travel route, just make sure it's one that was built in 2008 or later.
Those standards, known as Tier II, Bin 5, are among the strictest in the world--and considerably tougher than the European standards in force over that period.
Europe, where roughly half the new cars are sold with diesel engines (it varies considerably by country), has long been held up by diesel advocates as a model for how the U.S. could significantly reduce its fuel consumption.
Diesel combustion is more efficient than gasoline combustion, as a rule, and many diesel-engined passenger vehicles prove to get higher real-world fuel economy than the ratings under U.S. EPA test regimens--often not the case for hybrid vehicles.
But only next year will Europe move to exhaust-emission standards as tough as those in the U.S. (known as the Euro 6 standard).
Meanwhile, it turns out that diesel trucks and buses cause significant air pollution in European cities.
In London, for instance, the degree of nitrous oxides in the famous Oxford Street shopping district was fully three times the maximum recommended by the EU.
More startling, the NOx levels in London were even higher than those in the legendarily awful air of Beijing, according to a report issued in July.
Paris, too, has had numerous smog alerts--we experienced one last week while attending a workshop there--and reductions in car travel as a result appear to have lowered harmful airborne emissions, at least temporarily.
The facts about European cities came in a Navigant Research blog post that looked at the role of highly-polluted city air in driving more stringent emissions regulations for vehicles and industry.
So by all means purchase a diesel vehicle if you want to get better fuel economy and make the most of your transportation dollar.
Assuming, of course, that the higher purchase cost will be offset by lower fuel expenses, and especially if you drive long distances at highway speeds.
But if you don't want to worsen the emissions in your town or travel route, just make sure it's one that was built in 2008 or later.
09-22-14, 10:50 AM
#2
Unfortunately car companies were able to influence EU legislators to keep taxes based on fuel consumption and not pollution, which left us with problems above. Direct injection turbo engines are even worse than modern diesels and yet they have given them exemptions due to pressure from german car industry.
Taxes everywhere are based on CO2, which is directly tied to fuel consumption. So it does not matter how much NOx and other really harmful stuff comes out of the pipe.
Taxes everywhere are based on CO2, which is directly tied to fuel consumption. So it does not matter how much NOx and other really harmful stuff comes out of the pipe.
09-22-14, 11:20 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
In London, for instance, the degree of nitrous oxides in the famous Oxford Street shopping district was fully three times the maximum recommended by the EU.
09-22-14, 12:03 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
Perhaps (?) the EU standards are unrealistically low for a modern mobile society. The answer to everything is not always simply tightening government standards more and more. Legislators have to THINK before they vote on regulations.....unfortunately, too many of them don't.
And to think Brussels still wants to push through with Euro 6 emission standards as well as the 95 g/km C02 fleet average requirement.
Stupid Greenpeace mother**kers.
09-22-14, 02:03 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Denver, in some ways, is a more difficult situation, because, unlike low-lying cities like London, Paris, and Bejing, its mile-high altitude means already thin air and maybe some trouble breathing, even with no smog and little pollution. This is why I said, in my last post, that legislators can't simply make one blanket law and expect it to apply everywhere.
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09-22-14, 05:46 PM
#8
Perhaps (?) the EU standards are unrealistically low for a modern mobile society. The answer to everything is not always simply tightening government standards more and more. Legislators have to THINK before they vote on regulations.....unfortunately, too many of them don't.
Standards are too low due to pressure from automotive companies. Two major german university studies found that in reality, NOx pollution from cars did not come down at all, despite the standards, because manufacturers have learned how to game EU gas consumption cycle better so all the progress in past 15 years is actually not the progress at all, which is why we see pollutions in big cities going up.
09-22-14, 06:47 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Actually, that's no quite what I said. What I said was that legislators should THINK before they vote on something. Having the same standards for large areas across the board is not always feasible. And, even so, you can get to a point where you either reach overkill and/or simply run into the point of diminshing-returns. Here in America, for example, the average new all-gas powered car produces only ONE PERCENT of the emissions of the cars I grew up with and learned to drive on in the 1960s. Likewise, I wish that politicians today produced only one percent of the bull**** they emitted 40-50 years ago....if they did, we'd all be better off.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-22-14 at 06:50 PM.
09-22-14, 07:48 PM
#10
Actually, that's no quite what I said. What I said was that legislators should THINK before they vote on something. Having the same standards for large areas across the board is not always feasible. And, even so, you can get to a point where you either reach overkill and/or simply run into the point of diminshing-returns. Here in America, for example, the average new all-gas powered car produces only ONE PERCENT of the emissions of the cars I grew up with and learned to drive on in the 1960s. Likewise, I wish that politicians today produced only one percent of the bull**** they emitted 40-50 years ago....if they did, we'd all be better off.
09-22-14, 07:56 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
just another ludicrous scare tactic article by the self-righteous, naive, and pompous greencarreport. 
leaves the most important part for last...
so as long as you have a car less than 6 years old it's ok, kthxbye. 
leaves the most important part for last...
But if you don't want to worsen the emissions in your town or travel route, just make sure it's one that was built in 2008 or later.
09-22-14, 10:27 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
I talked to one gent who remembered while living in Los Angeles during the early 60's and he couldn't even see the mountain ranges then. Visibility was sometimes only a mile!
09-23-14, 09:25 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
uhh you missed the first 2 sentences!!! ...and the point of the article
that's because there were ZERO emissions controls back then.
There's a lot of talk about so-called clean diesel, which in North America means any diesel that meets tailpipe emissions standards that went into effect seven years ago.
Those standards, known as Tier II, Bin 5, are among the strictest in the world--and considerably tougher than the European standards in force over that period.
But only next year will Europe move to exhaust-emission standards as tough as those in the U.S. (known as the Euro 6 standard).
Meanwhile, it turns out that diesel trucks and buses cause significant air pollution in European cities.
Those standards, known as Tier II, Bin 5, are among the strictest in the world--and considerably tougher than the European standards in force over that period.
But only next year will Europe move to exhaust-emission standards as tough as those in the U.S. (known as the Euro 6 standard).
Meanwhile, it turns out that diesel trucks and buses cause significant air pollution in European cities.
Last edited by bagwell; 09-23-14 at 09:28 AM.
09-23-14, 09:57 AM
#15
There is nothing scare tacting about cities in Europe suspending all car travel due to smog being worse than in China :-)