Question of the Week: Should Scion Reincorporate With Toyota?
08-11-14, 01:55 PM
#1
Question of the Week: Should Scion Reincorporate With Toyota?
Last week on our sister site ScionLife, Jonathon Klein wrote a post saying it's time for Scion to return to the mothership and reincorporate with Toyota. Will it happen? Probably not, but I think he made some good points. The most compelling reason is probably the fact that Toyota doesn't need a brand to make it hip. Here's the crux of his argument:
"Over the last few years, with driving enthusiast and part-time race car driver Akio Toyoda at the helm, the company has slowly been shedding its older demographic feel, increasing its youth orientation and delivering exciting products. With a new Supra coming, now is the right time to reincorporate Scion into Toyota. The world's largest automaker no longer hide its nameplate from young buyers."
This makes sense to me, and while I haven't seen a ton of support for the it over ScionLife, I was wondering what the community on ClubLexus thinks of the idea. So what do you think? Should Scion Reincorporate With Toyota?
"Over the last few years, with driving enthusiast and part-time race car driver Akio Toyoda at the helm, the company has slowly been shedding its older demographic feel, increasing its youth orientation and delivering exciting products. With a new Supra coming, now is the right time to reincorporate Scion into Toyota. The world's largest automaker no longer hide its nameplate from young buyers."
This makes sense to me, and while I haven't seen a ton of support for the it over ScionLife, I was wondering what the community on ClubLexus thinks of the idea. So what do you think? Should Scion Reincorporate With Toyota?
08-11-14, 02:58 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
My opinion is no. Scion, like Saturn before it, is the only automaker currently in the U.S. market that has the customer-friendly, no-haggle deals as its official company policy. That alone, IMO, is justification for keeping the two divisions apart. Despite misleading TV dealer-ads to the contrary, trying to deal on Toyotas can sometimes be like pulling teeth, even as repeat customers or with people in the sales business you've known before. Same with Hondas....which, in some ways, are even harder to bargain on. I won't go into all the reasons why in detail, but in general, it dates back to the Japanese-car shortage and high demand for them in the 1980s.
Critics of the list-price-only system that Saturn and Scion sometimes make the claim that it is just a form of gouging the customer, charging full-price, while trying to making it look like a friendly, easy deal. That would be true, IMO, if the cars were overpriced to start with, but, in most cases, they aren't....they are usually reasonable. The only way that Saturn and Scion dealers could profiteer (and, admittedly, it occasionally happened), was if they had a hot-selling model in high demand (the Saturn Sky roadster was a good example) that they couldn't mark up because of company policy. What WAS allowed, though, was for them to tack on dealer/factory approved accessories (spoilers, floor mats, cargo nets, etc.....) and charge extra for them, increasing their profit on it. But that was the exception more so than the rule.
In general, the no-haggle deal policy is a good system for those who dislike a Bazaar-type atmosphere when buying a car, and for first-time buyers like college students who may be inexperienced in deal-making. True, some other dealerships, here and there, may have a no-haggle Internet discount or occasional easy-as-you go deals, but Scion is the only American-market automaker left that still makes it a company policy. For a dealership to violate those terms could mean them losing their franchise.
Critics of the list-price-only system that Saturn and Scion sometimes make the claim that it is just a form of gouging the customer, charging full-price, while trying to making it look like a friendly, easy deal. That would be true, IMO, if the cars were overpriced to start with, but, in most cases, they aren't....they are usually reasonable. The only way that Saturn and Scion dealers could profiteer (and, admittedly, it occasionally happened), was if they had a hot-selling model in high demand (the Saturn Sky roadster was a good example) that they couldn't mark up because of company policy. What WAS allowed, though, was for them to tack on dealer/factory approved accessories (spoilers, floor mats, cargo nets, etc.....) and charge extra for them, increasing their profit on it. But that was the exception more so than the rule.
In general, the no-haggle deal policy is a good system for those who dislike a Bazaar-type atmosphere when buying a car, and for first-time buyers like college students who may be inexperienced in deal-making. True, some other dealerships, here and there, may have a no-haggle Internet discount or occasional easy-as-you go deals, but Scion is the only American-market automaker left that still makes it a company policy. For a dealership to violate those terms could mean them losing their franchise.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-11-14 at 03:03 PM.
08-11-14, 03:19 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
08-11-14, 03:26 PM
#6
My opinion is no. Scion, like Saturn before it, is the only automaker currently in the U.S. market that has the customer-friendly, no-haggle deals as its official company policy. That alone, IMO, is justification for keeping the two divisions apart. Despite misleading TV dealer-ads to the contrary, trying to deal on Toyotas can sometimes be like pulling teeth, even as repeat customers or with people in the sales business you've known before. Same with Hondas....which, in some ways, are even harder to bargain on. I won't go into all the reasons why in detail, but in general, it dates back to the Japanese-car shortage and high demand for them in the 1980s.
Critics of the list-price-only system that Saturn and Scion sometimes make the claim that it is just a form of gouging the customer, charging full-price, while trying to making it look like a friendly, easy deal. That would be true, IMO, if the cars were overpriced to start with, but, in most cases, they aren't....they are usually reasonable. The only way that Saturn and Scion dealers could profiteer (and, admittedly, it occasionally happened), was if they had a hot-selling model in high demand (the Saturn Sky roadster was a good example) that they couldn't mark up because of company policy. What WAS allowed, though, was for them to tack on dealer/factory approved accessories (spoilers, floor mats, cargo nets, etc.....) and charge extra for them, increasing their profit on it. But that was the exception more so than the rule.
In general, the no-haggle deal policy is a good system for those who dislike a Bazaar-type atmosphere when buying a car, and for first-time buyers like college students who may be inexperienced in deal-making. True, some other dealerships, here and there, may have a no-haggle Internet discount or occasional easy-as-you go deals, but Scion is the only American-market automaker left that still makes it a company policy. For a dealership to violate those terms could mean them losing their franchise.
Critics of the list-price-only system that Saturn and Scion sometimes make the claim that it is just a form of gouging the customer, charging full-price, while trying to making it look like a friendly, easy deal. That would be true, IMO, if the cars were overpriced to start with, but, in most cases, they aren't....they are usually reasonable. The only way that Saturn and Scion dealers could profiteer (and, admittedly, it occasionally happened), was if they had a hot-selling model in high demand (the Saturn Sky roadster was a good example) that they couldn't mark up because of company policy. What WAS allowed, though, was for them to tack on dealer/factory approved accessories (spoilers, floor mats, cargo nets, etc.....) and charge extra for them, increasing their profit on it. But that was the exception more so than the rule.
In general, the no-haggle deal policy is a good system for those who dislike a Bazaar-type atmosphere when buying a car, and for first-time buyers like college students who may be inexperienced in deal-making. True, some other dealerships, here and there, may have a no-haggle Internet discount or occasional easy-as-you go deals, but Scion is the only American-market automaker left that still makes it a company policy. For a dealership to violate those terms could mean them losing their franchise.
08-11-14, 03:46 PM
#7
That said Scion should go back to the original premise of new types of models every generation, not just the same model refreshed here and there.
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08-11-14, 04:37 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
As I see it, they have kept their new-generation promise, though...at least to an extent. After starting out with little more than a couple of motorized shoeboxes, the tC FWD sport coupe was added a few years later, and then the RWD FR-S sport coupe shared with Toyota and Subaru. Plus, the original xA was replaced with a totally new xD, and the xB with a totally redesigned version.
But with the entire industry potentially moving to a one-price environment, that could be a moot point as the sole justification for Scion as a whole.
One thing, at first, that turned out to be a surprise was the number of older buyers that originally bought the 1Gen xB and xA. They also liked the simple deals and the fact that they were getting vehicles that, if controversially-styled, were well-built, efficient, inexpensive, reliable, and space-efficient....just what they needed on their fixed-incomes.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-11-14 at 04:50 PM.
08-11-14, 04:40 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
08-11-14, 05:23 PM
#10
As I see it, they have kept their new-generation promise, though...at least to an extent. After starting out with little more than a couple of motorized shoeboxes, the tC FWD sport coupe was added a few years later, and then the RWD FR-S sport coupe shared with Toyota and Subaru. Plus, the original xA was replaced with a totally new xD, and the xB with a totally redesigned version.
xB became a more "mature" version of the box design, but that kinda killed the niche factor it had.
tC has also experienced a redesign to make it a new version of itself.
it should be wholly different models, such as the addition of tC and then the addition of FR-S.
Scion admitted that they got hooked on the success of certain models and didn't want to give them up. Straying from the initial premise of entirely new kinds of cars every generation.
08-11-14, 05:30 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
I dont think the no haggle price has anything to do with sales. Younger buyers probably don't care. Bottom line, Scion is not doing well.
08-11-14, 08:39 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Scion is a disaster...the cars are usually tucked away in the back of a Toyota dealership - whats the point????
It started out ok but Toyota had no vision for it.
It started out ok but Toyota had no vision for it.
08-12-14, 07:28 AM
#14
Dealers and Toyota employees/execs will tell you to your face that Scion has been a poorly managed disaster, so take that for what it's worth. The brand has completely fallen short on their promise of fun, quirky vehicles that are turned over every 3-4 years and "may not be the same generation-to-generation."
The FR-S has been the best product they've ever had, and a small truck based on the A-BAT would be solid as well. FR-S should be reincarnated next generation as the Celica and whatever other future products should just be Toyotas.
The FR-S has been the best product they've ever had, and a small truck based on the A-BAT would be solid as well. FR-S should be reincarnated next generation as the Celica and whatever other future products should just be Toyotas.
08-12-14, 07:39 AM
#15
Driver
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Toyota has tried once again to push the ''no-haggle'' policy and the ''one price for everyone'' into the Scion brand. Toyota had it for some times before, and now Scion is trying that path again. And let me tell you it's huge BS, at least in Quebec. They all say there are no negotiations possible and what not, but when you tell me you'll simply buy another car, they suddenly come up with some extras. Yes the price of the car doesn't move, however you get extra equipment and what not for the same price. The only Scion cars that are moving on the lots are FR-S. I'd be pretty shocked to see the days spent on lot of the Scion dealerships.