GM To Idle ATS & CTS Plant For 3 Weeks; CTS Has 215 Day Supply
#211
Lexus Test Driver
The other reason for falling sales is a more complex man-made problem, one that I have been pointing out for about two decades with car reviews. The latest Impala suffers from what many previous past LOUSY cars have suffered from. And that is ratings and reviews based on a comparison of a previous lousy model and not current competition. This has always happened since the beginning of car reviews, and happened when this Impala debuted. Everyone was so enthralled and amazed what an improvement it was over the previous unit, they couldn't contain themselves and gave it glowing reviews. But in reality, that is not how the car really is nor should be judged by (it is GOOD, not great). All new models should always be judged by their current peers. If that were done, hype would have been less, GM would have built less, and we would not be having this conversation. But it is human nature to go gaga-googoo over a new car that greatly improves upon itself. We cannot contain our enthusiasm. I'm guilty of the same at times, but always try to set aside any shock and surprise and keep the current bar at hand.
#212
Lexus Fanatic
The bottom line is, you can build a great car and if it isn't priced and packaged properly...it will be a slow sell. I think GM's issue here is that their expectations have far outpaced reality.
I think the issue with the Impala is that its just not a product that the modern American carbuyer really wants. Its a very good car but its ponderously big, it has a little bit of a unrefined blue collar appeal...which is at odds with the demographic they are trying to reach. Its a throwback type car to an era that is just over in the American auto market.
As for Cadillac...they are just way too expensive. Buyers need to perceive value when choosing a Cadillac. Even with deep discounts, that initial cost of entry keeps people from cross shopping it with an equality priced 5 or E Class. If the CTS were priced more similarly to the GS, it would sell much better.
I think the issue with the Impala is that its just not a product that the modern American carbuyer really wants. Its a very good car but its ponderously big, it has a little bit of a unrefined blue collar appeal...which is at odds with the demographic they are trying to reach. Its a throwback type car to an era that is just over in the American auto market.
As for Cadillac...they are just way too expensive. Buyers need to perceive value when choosing a Cadillac. Even with deep discounts, that initial cost of entry keeps people from cross shopping it with an equality priced 5 or E Class. If the CTS were priced more similarly to the GS, it would sell much better.
#213
Lexus Fanatic
This IS indeed the biggest reason for struggling Impala sales. It falls into one of those "tweener" categaries- a little bigger and a little more expensive than where the core market is (Accord/Camry/Altima/Fusion/Passat). The Taurus, Avalon, and Maxima all have similar struggles, which have also been documented.
The other reason for falling sales is a more complex man-made problem, one that I have been pointing out for about two decades with car reviews. The latest Impala suffers from what many previous past LOUSY cars have suffered from. And that is ratings and reviews based on a comparison of a previous lousy model and not current competition. This has always happened since the beginning of car reviews, and happened when this Impala debuted. Everyone was so enthralled and amazed what an improvement it was over the previous unit, they couldn't contain themselves and gave it glowing reviews. But in reality, that is not how the car really is nor should be judged by (it is GOOD, not great). All new models should always be judged by their current peers. If that were done, hype would have been less, GM would have built less, and we would not be having this conversation. But it is human nature to go gaga-googoo over a new car that greatly improves upon itself. We cannot contain our enthusiasm. I'm guilty of the same at times, but always try to set aside any shock and surprise and keep the current bar at hand.
The other reason for falling sales is a more complex man-made problem, one that I have been pointing out for about two decades with car reviews. The latest Impala suffers from what many previous past LOUSY cars have suffered from. And that is ratings and reviews based on a comparison of a previous lousy model and not current competition. This has always happened since the beginning of car reviews, and happened when this Impala debuted. Everyone was so enthralled and amazed what an improvement it was over the previous unit, they couldn't contain themselves and gave it glowing reviews. But in reality, that is not how the car really is nor should be judged by (it is GOOD, not great). All new models should always be judged by their current peers. If that were done, hype would have been less, GM would have built less, and we would not be having this conversation. But it is human nature to go gaga-googoo over a new car that greatly improves upon itself. We cannot contain our enthusiasm. I'm guilty of the same at times, but always try to set aside any shock and surprise and keep the current bar at hand.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-01-15 at 07:42 AM.
#214
Lexus Fanatic
I think the issue with the Impala is that its just not a product that the modern American carbuyer really wants. Its a very good car but its ponderously big, it has a little bit of a unrefined blue collar appeal...which is at odds with the demographic they are trying to reach. Its a throwback type car to an era that is just over in the American auto market.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-01-15 at 10:03 AM.
#215
Lexus Fanatic
I like a big, comfortable car...but even I think the Impala is too big. Bottom line is the demand for this particular type of car is shrinking, not growing, and sales of these cars are going to shrink not grow...goes for the Avalon too.
If I were going to buy a loaded Impala or Avalon, I'd buy a V6 Hyundai Genesis. Its large without being too large, has a better drivetrain layout, much better build quality and higher product quality. It drives like a big comfortable sedan without being over the top throwback like the Impala.
If I were going to buy a loaded Impala or Avalon, I'd buy a V6 Hyundai Genesis. Its large without being too large, has a better drivetrain layout, much better build quality and higher product quality. It drives like a big comfortable sedan without being over the top throwback like the Impala.
#216
Lexus Champion
Impala sales for 2014 were 140,280 (-10.5%) and for Jan 2015 9,214 (-22.5%) definitely a declining trend. Cadillac was also mentioned in the article and their sedan sales were off as well.
#217
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I'm not surprised that the Impala is struggling, GM forever has been trying to get people to view the Impala as a car that can compete with the like of Toyota Camrys or Ford Fusions. The Impala is a GM fanboys wet dream, but not for competing shoppers. As for the Cadillac's, try as they might, Cadillac just can't get the public to view their new cars in the same view as the top tier luxury brands. The Escalade with its slick style and smooth ride is different.
#218
As others have noted, the "Fullsize" mainstream sedan market continues a downward march in the overall automotive industry. There was some brief uptick in 2013 when the Avalon and Impala first debuted, but sales were down again in 2014 despite incentives being cranked up.
The midsize sedans (Accord, Camry, etc) have gotten larger and nicer, encroaching on the Fullsize sedans of the past, and more and more people look to a crossover/SUV to fit 4-5 adults, which Fullsize sedans used to serve. On top of the luxury brands also increasingly compete in the $30-$40K price range where the bulk of these Fullsize sedans transact in.
The midsize sedans (Accord, Camry, etc) have gotten larger and nicer, encroaching on the Fullsize sedans of the past, and more and more people look to a crossover/SUV to fit 4-5 adults, which Fullsize sedans used to serve. On top of the luxury brands also increasingly compete in the $30-$40K price range where the bulk of these Fullsize sedans transact in.
#219
Lexus Fanatic
IMO, the Impala slots in between the Camry and the Avalon, sure it is a "large" car BUT with a Chevrolet 4 cylinder motor, a $27,000 base MSRP and a less than premium "design" to the interior, it really is more like a Camry than an Avalon.
The Avalon is a true "premium" car that is large, the Impala is not a "premium" car that is also large. Those are just my thoughts.
#220
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Well I have to disagree with you and here is why, the Impala starts at almost $5000 less than an Avalon and with their corase sounding I4 , one must consider a Camry and Accord as a competitor. And if you do a competitor comparo at Chevy the Camry is not all that smaller than you think.
IMO, the Impala slots in between the Camry and the Avalon, sure it is a "large" car BUT with a Chevrolet 4 cylinder motor, a $27,000 base MSRP and a less than premium "design" to the interior, it really is more like a Camry than an Avalon.
The Avalon is a true "premium" car that is large, the Impala is not a "premium" car that is also large. Those are just my thoughts.
IMO, the Impala slots in between the Camry and the Avalon, sure it is a "large" car BUT with a Chevrolet 4 cylinder motor, a $27,000 base MSRP and a less than premium "design" to the interior, it really is more like a Camry than an Avalon.
The Avalon is a true "premium" car that is large, the Impala is not a "premium" car that is also large. Those are just my thoughts.
The Taurus and Charger all start in the high twenties while the 300, Azera, and Avalon start at a higher price. So maybe not direct competitors but I can guarantee you the Malibu is positioned to be the true Camry/Accord competitor by Chevrolet themselves.
#221
As others have noted, the "Fullsize" mainstream sedan market continues a downward march in the overall automotive industry. There was some brief uptick in 2013 when the Avalon and Impala first debuted, but sales were down again in 2014 despite incentives being cranked up.
The midsize sedans (Accord, Camry, etc) have gotten larger and nicer, encroaching on the Fullsize sedans of the past, and more and more people look to a crossover/SUV to fit 4-5 adults, which Fullsize sedans used to serve. On top of the luxury brands also increasingly compete in the $30-$40K price range where the bulk of these Fullsize sedans transact in.
The midsize sedans (Accord, Camry, etc) have gotten larger and nicer, encroaching on the Fullsize sedans of the past, and more and more people look to a crossover/SUV to fit 4-5 adults, which Fullsize sedans used to serve. On top of the luxury brands also increasingly compete in the $30-$40K price range where the bulk of these Fullsize sedans transact in.
And Avalon is up actually in January YoY by decent amount (10%). It just shows that it is important that actual car is good.
#222
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by TangoRed
The Taurus and Charger all start in the high twenties while the 300, Azera, and Avalon start at a higher price. So maybe not direct competitors but I can guarantee you the Malibu is positioned to be the true Camry/Accord competitor by Chevrolet themselves.
#223
Lexus Fanatic
Of course as soon as I say the market for these is shrinking, friend of mine posts a pic of a big shiny Impala LTZ on FB....traded an old E Class for it.
So WTF do I know? LOL
So WTF do I know? LOL
#224
Lexus Fanatic
She had spoken with me, in the pool, several times, about getting a new car, and seemed Gung-Ho on either another Camry (she had put a lot of miles on her old Camry) or a new Outback for winter. So, instead, she comes home with an Azera......those heavy discounts on it, from slow sales, seemed to do the trick.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-01-15 at 05:27 PM.
#225
Lexus Fanatic
Back to the original topics (ATS and CTS), even with a general production cutback, Cadillac is now taking orders for the ATS-V.
http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...et-for-Spring/
Cadillac dealers are now accepting orders for the 2016 ATS-V, the brand’s inaugural luxury compact performance car, which will be assembled at the Lansing Grand River plant starting this spring.
“The V-Series is the ultimate expression of Cadillac’s re-ignited product substance and the passion at the core of our brand,” says Johan de Nysschen, Cadillac’s president. “The ATS-V expands the V-Series lineup, bringing a new kind of performance character to Cadillac.”
With starting prices of $61,460 and $63,660, both the sedan and coupe are powered by the Cadillac Twin Turbo engine, which produces 455 horsepower, 445 pound-feet of torque, and a top speed of 189 mph.
Drivers can also utilize the vehicle’s performance data recorder to record high-definition video of their driving experiences on and off a track, enabling sharing on social media.
Consumers can order ATS-Vs now through dealers, and begin specifying their own ATS-V online at cadillac.com in April.
http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...et-for-Spring/
Cadillac dealers are now accepting orders for the 2016 ATS-V, the brand’s inaugural luxury compact performance car, which will be assembled at the Lansing Grand River plant starting this spring.
“The V-Series is the ultimate expression of Cadillac’s re-ignited product substance and the passion at the core of our brand,” says Johan de Nysschen, Cadillac’s president. “The ATS-V expands the V-Series lineup, bringing a new kind of performance character to Cadillac.”
With starting prices of $61,460 and $63,660, both the sedan and coupe are powered by the Cadillac Twin Turbo engine, which produces 455 horsepower, 445 pound-feet of torque, and a top speed of 189 mph.
Drivers can also utilize the vehicle’s performance data recorder to record high-definition video of their driving experiences on and off a track, enabling sharing on social media.
Consumers can order ATS-Vs now through dealers, and begin specifying their own ATS-V online at cadillac.com in April.