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I think the brand problems at Lincoln are far worse than those at Cadillac. Cadillac has some problems, but they've been doing the art and science styling theme for some time now and its had an impact I think. I interact with a lot of people who are luxury car owners every day and Cadillacs are held in higher regard than Lincolns.
However, my wife has told me that I am not allowed to buy a Cadillac LOL
You mean the 98-03 STS. The 95-97 was the same body as the 92-95 just with a more Lexus-like dashboard. I prefer the more angular look to the softer 98-03 Seville.
I personally loved the styling of my Dad's black 95 STS. This is pretty much exactly what he had:
He had some issues with it, but when the lease was up he seriously considered a 98 STS, even had one on order but the price had gotten to where it was within a few K of a Lexus LS, and the Lexus' lease was about $100 a month more. He figured since it tried so hard to be a Lexus inside (their switchgear in that generation was a direct Lexus ripoff, Lexus looking optitron gauges, etc) he may as well go for it and get the real thing.
It all comes down to price. Had the 98 STS been $10k different than the LS like it was in 1995, he likely never would have gotten the LS. Caddy is having a similar issue now.
Have them do some reading. A number of magazine review/comparisons have actually picked the ATS over the new, de-sentisized 3-series.
And *most* people are not buying because of how a car actually handles. They feel that they *know* BMW is the benchmark, and they see the prices at MSRP are essentially the same, and they go with BMW. We lose site on these forums how most of the world works. I know a top finance guy at Comcast/NBC, and 2 years ago, he had no idea that he could request price quotes and use sites like TrueCar when shopping for a new Honda Pilot--he just shopped the old fashioned way.
Most people *hate* car shopping and the price negotiations, and don't realize that it would take very little work to get an ATS for significantly below a 3-Series; and also have no idea that BMWs don't perform like they did generations ago--and don't care, as they will never push it through its paces. They want a *nice* car--bottom line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Car & Driver Article
The 2015 Grand National and GNX sedans will ride on GM's new rear-drive Alpha platform, which was introduced with the Cadillac ATS and is earmarked for the sixth-generation Camaro and the third-generation Cadillac CTS.
If the GNX is just a rebadged ATS, then it's already a failure....
The brand problems at Lincoln and Cadillac are very serious. The only vehicle that does not suffer brand image problems is the Cadillac Escalade.
At one time, the Escalade (rightly or wrongly) was looked upon as a pimp-mobile for rappers, athletes, and entertainers....not as a serious upmarket-luxury SUV for Mom-and-Pop suburbia, although eventually its market did reach out to suburbs.
I always thought the 95-03 STS models were the best Cadillac has ever come to making a true Lexus competitor. THEN the terrible last gen STS came to market and Cadillac was laughed at once again.
They were easily the plushest Cadillacs of their time (though the Seville STS had a slightly firmer ride and sharper steering than the SLS). Reliability though, was generally sub-par (the troublesome 4.6L Northstar engine didn't help, either)
Keep waiting for the Buick version--there won't be one.
Originally Posted by tex2670
If the GNX is just a rebadged ATS, then it's already a failure....
okay, so now i'm confused there isn't going to be a buick version of the cadillac, or there is but since it will be a rebadged ATS it's a failure? which one of your definitive-sounding statements is actually false? or are they both false?
okay, so now i'm confused there isn't going to be a buick version of the cadillac, or there is but since it will be a rebadged ATS it's a failure? which one of your definitive-sounding statements is actually false? or are they both false?
okay, so now i'm confused there isn't going to be a buick version of the cadillac, or there is but since it will be a rebadged ATS it's a failure? which one of your definitive-sounding statements is actually false? or are they both false?
if you don't mind me stepping into your conversation with tex2670, I'll try to make it simple as I can. Here is the present (today) relationship between Buick and Cadillac sedans:
......The Cadillac flagship XTS and Buick flagship LaCrosse share the same FWD/AWD platform (the FWD Chevrolet Impala also shares it, but does not currently have an AWD version).
......The mid-size Cadillac CTS, which is RWD/AWD, does not share any current design with Buick.
......The compact Cadillac ATS, also RWD/AWD, does not share any current design with Buick either.
There are strong rumors of an upcoming Buick RWD Grand National like what was offered some 30 years ago, but it is unclear (Buick is being tight-lipped about it) whether it will be based on a version of the smaller ATS, mid-size CTS, or the full-size RWD Australian Holden platform currently used by the Chevy SS. On that part of it, many of us are confused.
speaking of towncars ... a couple of times (ages ago) i rented one like this and it was hands down the worst car i've ever driven.
for a HUGE car it had surprisingly little storage space, including a ludicrous trunk with an UPRIGHT full size spare in it behind felt covering making the space left almost useless. inside the car had almost NO storage spaces except the seats and the glovebox. i've been on sailboats with less body roll than this POS. visibility was awful. you'd hit the gas and the car would surge forward with the ENORMOUS front hood jutting up in the air making it hard to see over. i think container ships have a smaller turning circle as well. it was baaaaaad.
I agree with most comments as to why Caddy is having troubles moving the ATS and CTS. But one point not mentioned is something I have brought up for several years. Cadillac has thoroughly confused the public by taking a known model and completely shifting it to another class and pricepoint. I'm refering to the CTS establishing itself as an entry car, then in a few year they jacked up the price and made it their mid model. No no no. You cannot do that in this market without people getting sticker shock, confused, and turned off. It will take a good ten to twelve years for the general public to get a grip on the fact that the CTS has grown and is no longer the cheap Cadillac. The brand should have never done this in my opinion. It is very risky business. The CTS should have always remained the entry car, and they should have built an all new mid (5-series) fighter with an all-new name and matching pricepoint. Simple, clean marketing that nearly all other manufacturers have followed since day one.
GM has always done things the hard way, and they still do today. The ELR is another marketing failure and the XTS never had what it took out of the gate to be competitive. Even Caddy admitted in so many words the car was not good enough as they revealed it at car shows (If I recall their exact words, "This will be a stop-gap car until we get the real deal going."). All poor business decisions that lead to lower sales and wasted funds.
08-10-14, 12:47 PM
there isn't going to be a buick version of the cadillac, or there is but since it will be a rebadged ATS it's a failure? which one of your definitive-sounding statements is actually false? or are they both false?
... a couple of times (ages ago) i rented one like this and it was hands down the worst car i've ever driven. 
