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they still had some of those engines in a warehouse. "ship 'em 'over there', they'll take anything, bwahaha"
nop, that can't be the case. keep in mind that's NOT the old i6 in the 2gs. it's already the brand new v6 design but just the 300 version not the 350 version.
Originally Posted by Vladi
a) They didn't have choice as engine was not ready
b) They wanted to focus on IS debut which would mean they dropped the GS right after second gen which explains why they wanted to cancel the 4th gen
So pick a or b or both
as i mentioned japan already had 3gs350 since day 1, it's impossible to say that the engine was not ready
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
all this talk of 400+, 500+ hp makes me chuckle when most people sit at traffic lights, drive along slow residential roads, or are looking out for speed traps on highways. fun for short bursts to be sure, but pretty much overkill and just "hp envy" otherwise.
i very much disagree. to me you are describing most part of the general public who cares about having a car to go from point A to point B. for those of course power doesn't matter much at all.
but for those who like to drive and care about the driving experience, the extra hp is appreciated even though not used all the time. i live in socal and traffic is nothing uncommon, but i never regret one bit about our m3 or our gl550. yes sometimes the car is still idling, but when the chance comes, it's a full enjoyment. and there are countless occasions where all the hp were put into use to satisfy my needs.
when the w222 came out with 440hp people say it's crazy to have that much power in a big sedan. i know more than a few w222 owners, they all say how happy they are that the car has so much power so the car is so smooth and every time they need to go it's just a gentle tap on the gas. most of these aren't even driving enthusiasts.
From the rear, I don't see any Infiniti in 5LS styling either.
In fact, from the rear, 5LS quite resembles current 4.5LS styling.
However, from the side, especially the apex of the rear windows above the rear door, the 5LS canopy does resemble Infiniti as some other poster put these three pics up.
Both Infiniti and 5LS have rear wheel arches that curve into the apex and lower border of the rear windows.
The rear face of the 5LS rear has a negative rake [facing downwards], hence the 5LS looks longer.
The rear face of the Infiniti has a positive rake like many Mercedes models [facing upwards], hence the Infiniti trunk looks shorter.
In some ways, the Infiniti actually looks better.
Actually touchpad is a lot better device than the **** like iDrive or MMI so Lexus was right when they picked the touchpad. What they didn't to is to optimize it for driver's usage when car is in motion. They have completely failed at ratio between touchpad sensitivity and layers of user interface.
In other words sensitivity of the touchpad cannot be the same when car is still and when car is moving on the road, especially when road gets bumpy. Lexus needs to employ adjustable sensitivity and when the harsh ride is detected sensitivity lower and requires more crude input. Besides that Lexus needs to revamp its user interface because with the touchpad you cant cram as many function as they have right now on the single screen, it just doesn't work like that unfortunately. Having five or six functions (icons) next to each other on the bottom of the screen and then as many icons on the right side of the screen as shortcuts can't work with the touchpad. They have to have layers of screen in order to access those function or have hardware keys for most basic functions such as AC, Mediia, Nav, etc. Let thos be physical like on MMI and then you touchpad around it.
But its not only that what's wrong with Lexus touchpad implementation. They are using touchpad solely as navigation device while the touchpad is made for gestures and advanced inputs as well, think of it as shortcuts. Ok lets go from the basic stuff, can you scroll the audio playlist with two fingers instead of hunting down the arrow button in order to scroll? And what about double finger tap or hold to access shortcuts or adjust favorite functions, for example instead of navigating to AC icon and taping on it to get in AC dedicated screen how about two finger tap and hold on AC icon and with up and down movement adjust fan speed while with left to right movement you could adjust vents (or up and down for seat heating and left to right for seat cooling, consider it as user adjustable). Advantage of such thing is that you didn't leave the screen such as Navigation for AC screen but yet you adjusted what you needed and you don't need to press Back button so you have one less action. How about universal gestures: three finger flick down mutes Audio on any screen, three finger slow scroll up or down adjusts the volume, three finger left or right flick skips the song while gentle side scroll rewinds it or fast forwards it. All of that on any screen you want.
One of the things Lexus really needs to consider with the touchpad is for driver not to be focused on the main display as he or she hunts the desired icon. Instead when you operate the touchpad whenever you hit some icon display between the gauges will show you where you are on the big display. Let's say you are on the HOME/main screen on the big display and your standard options are Destination, Info, Setup, Radio, Media, Climate, Phone (btw I still believe these should have been hardware buttons) as you scroll with your touchpad you don't need to look at the big display to see where you at with your finger movement, instead display in-between gauges will show you the icon and the motion how you got there. If you are on Destination and you move your finger to the right Destination icon between the gauges moves to the left and from right comes Info icon. See no need to look at the big display, you only have to glance at it when you get on a new screen.
There is some free consulting for Toyota right there.
Lexus' infotainment is okay, but it could be much better IMO.
One of the problems with Lexus Infotainment is that it is missing a "Snap To" feature.
In other words, after I press on the 5-way navigational joystick to Delete etc, a new screen appears with the Red Cursor in the middle of Yes or No, thus I must make another lower left or lower right joystick movement to select Yes or No, before I can Enter.
With Microsoft's Windows software, after we select Delete, a new window appears with the option of Yes or No, but the "cursor" has already defaulted to lie directly above the Yes option, hence one fewer movement of the mouse/joystick.
There are a number of other issues with Lexus Infotainment that must be improved.
For example, fundamentally, a half click of Lexus' joystick mouse should move "one" position only, similar to rotating BMW's iDrive.
Only a full click of the joystick mouse should move the cursor multiple positions.
Apart from that, Lexus' 2-D two-dimensional based infotainment system is not that bad, and it saves time and movements from having to enter sub-menus on a simple linear one-dimensional based infotainment system.
.
but for those who like to drive and care about the driving experience, the extra hp is appreciated even though not used all the time. i live in socal and traffic is nothing uncommon, but i never regret one bit about our m3 or our gl550. yes sometimes the car is still idling, but when the chance comes, it's a full enjoyment. and there are countless occasions where all the hp were put into use to satisfy my needs.
when the w222 came out with 440hp people say it's crazy to have that much power in a big sedan. i know more than a few w222 owners, they all say how happy they are that the car has so much power so the car is so smooth and every time they need to go it's just a gentle tap on the gas. most of these aren't even driving enthusiasts.
now imagine those who love to drive fast
i hear ya, and acceleration is certainly fun, but on those vehicles weight's also a (big) factor - the w222 and your gl550 are about 4800 and 5500 lbs respectively
for grins the other day i floored my gf's q60 and it took off like a rocket. with 330hp and 3600hp it moves!
transmissions and various 'modes' have also become a big factor in responsiveness as well. my jeep's 'puny' 295hp v6 with 8 speed (and 4600lb vehicle weight!) is surprisingly smooth and i tend to still leave most everything in the dust too, lol
anyway, no, i'm not interested in driving some gutless econobox. but i think there comes a point where more horsepower is truly pointless (and for many, dangerous). i love smooth 'effortless' power though.
i have no doubt the new ls ttv6 will be awesome and very quick.
Nope, I don't see any beyond they are both cars, and both have tail lights. But this constant comparison of new cars to existing saying they "cribbed the design" or "its a copy" is reaching a very high level of stupid. Many cars look similar, there is only so much you can do with the front, rear and sides of a car. Many times people make these "observations" without ever putting pictures of the two side by side.
Agreed...anytime a new design comes out, everyone has to get in their opinions of what x looks like.
Looks like; KIA, Hyundai, Nissan, this wheelbarrow, a tiger, and the one most beat to death recently is predator.
anyway, no, i'm not interested in driving some gutless econobox. but i think there comes a point where more horsepower is truly pointless (and for many, dangerous). i love smooth 'effortless' power though.
I generally agree with you on this one, but that is the very problem.......it seems that a lot of people, at least in this thread, consider 400 HP "gutless". Some of them would probably complain that an F-15's engines don't have enough thrust.
I generally agree with you on this one, but that is the very problem.......it seems that a lot of people, at least in this thread, consider 400 HP "gutless". Some of them would probably complain that an F-15's engines don't have enough thrust.
The problem is, you get used to things. If you drive a 4 cylinder car with less than 200hp, and then get to drive a 400hp vehicle, it will feel like a monster. But once you've been driving one for a while, it starts to feel slow and you want to get something with even more power.
I generally agree with you on this one, but that is the very problem.......it seems that a lot of people, at least in this thread, consider 400 HP "gutless". Some of them would probably complain that an F-15's engines don't have enough thrust.
Haha. A curse of the human condition.
Originally Posted by Och
The problem is, you get used to things. If you drive a 4 cylinder car with less than 200hp, and then get to drive a 400hp vehicle, it will feel like a monster. But once you've been driving one for a while, it starts to feel slow and you want to get something with even more power.
Yup. Vehicles that get to 60mph in ~6 seconds feel legitimately slow to me nowadays. And really, with these turbo motors C&D's 5-60mph test is a more accurate butt calibration.
Yeah, familiarity makes these cars feel normal. I've progressively stepped up in power from car to car just because of that familiarity. That's why HP numbers are constantly going up from generation to generation, typically speaking.
Abother thing, like it or not, there is some ego and vanity involved when you're talking about these cars. Anyone who says otherwise is not being truthful. Horsepower water cooler talk is a dang cliche', but hey it happens. 471 HP sounds a lot better than 415 HP even if it is only 0.1 second faster.
From my perspective, 415 HP isn't a lot to my ears these days. Ten years ago, sure, but not anymore. 450+ HP sounds much better. I went from 300 HP to 386 HP during my last change. I was also considering a 450 and 485 HP cars when I was shopping around, but I thought 386 is a big enough enough step this time around.
Hey, who doesn't like HP? It's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it. I just happen to also like smooth and quiet and these cars are one of the few that offer all of those attributes.
Not exactly true. You have to look at Toyota as a whole and not just Lexus. Land Cruiser 80 got an engine upgrade mid cycle, Camry too many to count, ES300 into ES330, RX330 into RX350, GS430 into GS460 well after the 4.6 was already on the market, Tundra gen 1 3.4 into 4.0, Tundra gen 2 4.7 into 4.6. Is250 into IS200t. Numerous transmission upgrades sprinkled in there as well. It just happens last 10 years was not much.
Now lets talk about the engine history of the LS in particular.... start from the very beginning in 1990. Go.
Now lets talk about the engine history of the LS in particular.... start from the very beginning in 1990. Go.
Second generation LS400 got a huge engine upgrade in 1998. It was still a 4.0 1UZFE, but it added VVTi and a bunch of other modifications, bumped both torque and horse power quite a bit.
I generally agree with you on this one, but that is the very problem.......it seems that a lot of people, at least in this thread, consider 400 HP "gutless". Some of them would probably complain that an F-15's engines don't have enough thrust.
I think the main problem is context. This is Toyota's flagship, the uber-luxury model, the model that straight up flaunts that we are superior to Mercedes-Benz. Not different, but superior. This whole market segment is all about wretched excess. Having a twin-turbo V6 instead of a twin-turbo V8 might be "sensible" in that it gets marginally better fuel economy, but since when has a $100,000 plus luxury car ever been "sensible"?
If top of the line means no more V8 and less horsepower than its chief rivals, then I think Toyota has lost the context on what it means to be competitive in this market segment.
01-18-17, 12:10 PM
40K? 50K? 60K? 100K?
"ship 'em 'over there', they'll take anything, bwahaha"
