gengar

Certainly, it's possible the negative feedback was considered acceptable - but there is no way the current V6TT offering wasn't well into development by the time many of these surveys were conducted. It's hard to believe anything but that TMC engineers and management had long ago decided that the V6TT would make up at least one of the engine options on 5LS, and TMC at best was using survey data to see if they needed to offer a V8 option. Given that no V8 option is official (or has even been officially hinted at), I find it more likely that TMC was just trying to gauge how much blowback they were going to get from their loyal customerbase over not having a V8 option.

Surveys always have room for manipulation and especially in big companies like TMC and also especially in culturally rigid companies like TMC, there is a lot of incentive for such manipulation. The questions regarding flagship 6cyl vs 8cyl typically had structured scale response types (you know, like 'tell us how you feel about this on a scale from 1 to 20'), which allows for much more data massaging than, say, asking customers if they would consider a 6cyl flagship (yes/no), or if they consider a 6cyl on a flagship a negative (yes/no).

Which leads us directly into....

The problem is what the research is for and what incentives the people doing the research have - especially when, as I mentioned above, the V6TT had to have been well into development when TMC was still sending out surveys about 6cyl vs 8cyl in flagships. As I also mentioned above, big companies and especially culturally rigid companies are susceptible to groupthink. So whether it is an internal employee group or a third party doing the surveys (in TMC's case with LAB, it is the latter), there is the incentive to tell the company what it wants to hear - even when that might not be the best thing for the company. We see this commonly in service industry companies (think airlines) where a PR says something stupid like "we're doing [something that raises price and/or decreases service] because our customer surveys show that's what our customers wanted us to do", when we all know that no customer, on an accurately-worded, properly-questioned, unmanipulated survey would ever actually say that. When I worked in consulting, we would encounter this type of thing surprisingly often at our clients - and many outsiders are shocked by the extent at which subservient groupthink occurs even in major companies.

Again, I have no evidence that TMC was subject to groupthink in this specific case - just want to comment on my experience as a LAB member along with some suspicions.

RNM GS3

^ Very good insight.....i agree 100% of how surveys can be manipulated.

On the other hand it speaks very poorly of how Lexus knows their core customer base if they felt having no V8 option would not cause any pushback. Maybe in Japan lack of V8 is no big deal?

Pricing will be $75-80k for RWD and low $80s for AWD.
There is no way it will be priced more than LC500.

I think they will sell about 15,000-20,000 units in first year.
Its gonna be hard to win back former LS clients that moved on over the past few years.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if you understand the traditional old school japanese culture and corporate mentality then all these make a lot more sense on why lexus doesn't seem to listen much to customers here.

lexus japan rules. they make the calls according to what they think is right as company's direction. lexus usa can do a lot of things and pray that the results of surveys (or anything for that matter) can change the minds of lexus japan, but that's where it ends.

there have been numerous occasions where lexus usa say clearly things have to go one way or it won't work, and we all see how certain decisions by lexus has failed. most of them are not because of lexus usa.

i am not sure if i would say the s class price point is "good". i think it's one expensive car and one has to pay premium to get the little extra. but i think the brand loyalty, the public prestige image, and the heritage has brought customers back to mb over and over again.

on top of that, people have to understand how these cars are sold. mb (and bmw) have considerably higher msrp. but they also have a lot more aggressive lease rates in general, that's how most of their cars are sold. and also don't forget fleet, if you are able to get under that program, that can save you few hundreds a month. all those together make payment on a s class a lot closer to a ls that's big chunk cheaper on msrp

mmarshall

I've driven the RLX, and I don't think it is necessarily overpriced, though IMO the SH-AWD should come standard like it did on the last-generation RL. Either way, though, cars like the RL can't be built for chump change.

Rhambler

After the sting of this thing not having the engine I wanted, that's the only thing that would make me consider this car is the price. That's why I brought that front and center.

They very well could repeat the $8k on average discount and bring it down to $75k. The only other reason I mention that as well is because the SWB is gone. Considering how much more the SWB outsold the LWB, for the average existing SWB LS owner, the increase over the existing SWB MSRP to even $80k might be hard to swallow, so who knows. That's almost $10k more.

I cant remember a new generation stepping up $10k from the previous year. Most appreciation happens slowly from year-to-year, with maybe $1-2k generational gaps.

If it retails with a 7 in front, it would be priced well and might entice existing LS and new owners alike.

situman

You guys are a weird lot. When Lexus sticks with NA engines, everybody whines about Lexus not having a turbo and dares to charge $60k to $80k for the RCF and GSF with the 5L V8. Now it has a turbo, everybody whines about not having the V8 from the LC. The same engine that everyone panned as being out of date, lack of torque and slow relative to turbo engines and the competition. I do hope Lexus will put a single turbo V8 in there as an upgrade then a twin turbo V8 for the LCF and LSF.

comotiger

Folks are complaining about not having a V8 option. No one thinks the V6TT is bad. Many people just prefer a V8. Why not give people the option of two engines?

Toys4RJill

Yes. Very well said.

Rhambler

Yeah if this came out with a V8 tt, I doubt anyone would question a thing about this car. Although personally I wanted that 5 liter, just because I know it would be reliable as it's a fairly established engine. But that's just me.

CleanSC

You must be new around here.

I think the whining is really just lamentation the V8 is gone from the LS. I mean everyone likes the TTV6. We'd LOVE to see that in future IS, GS, RC, etc. And sure perhaps a base LS, why not?

Nostalgia is a MFer. The complaints will be natural in this case.

If Lexus put that V6TT in the other models and left the LS alone I assure you there would be no complaints.

I wonder how we'll all take it when TMC points that engine at the GX and maybe LX.

CleanSC

Agreed. Altho in an alternate timeline there would totally be a 5 Liter V8 (but not in LC tune) in the LS. So it's not just you. It would have been the natural progression if the current environment wasn't what it is.

TangoRed

I'm with you- I would've only accepted a V8 TT, not the LC's V8.

S2000toIS350

I think a lot of the back lash is expectIon based

big luxury car = V8

i like to use Hyundai as my reference point

the G90 has a turbo V6 and NA V8 to choose from and RWD or AWD options

for Lexus to offer less than Hyundai leads one to think is Lexus going down market with the LS.

based on the interior and features of the LS I don't see down market happening

also the TT V6 is perceived to be the answer to the ailing GS and we didn't expect Lexus to introduce it this way

​​​​​​​i kind of think some of this is linked to Lexus establishing the LC hybrid as their new flagship

Toys4RJill

It is interesting that Lexus added the top lip from the ES.

Toys4RJill

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/videos...-jeff-bracken/

Trying imbed this link. If anyone can help that would be really great.