SW17LS

That's something you have to realize though, in manufacturing and design options cost money. It's much cheaper for them to just provide one option, even if it costs them sales. Let's be real, if the car sells 1000 units a month when it settles in it will do very well. How many people would buy the V8? I think 10% is a high estimate. So 100 per month...1,200 units per year...is it feasible to develop an all new TT V8 for the car at that volume?

The more I think about it with the TTV6 they really can't use the 5.0L V8, it would actually be slower.

coolsaber

Maybe true back in 09, but nowdays exterior styling has become stale. BMW, Mercedes, and of course Audi have gone from revolutionary to minor evolutionary updates. Put the last gens up with the new gens and you can tell the design budget was set up for interior appointments, safety autonomous tech and infotainment. No one in this market really is focusing on the exterior since its not like the drag Co are going to change drastically or lap times effected.

mmarshall

Why a TT V8, though? Except for probably a very small percentage of LS buyers who would pay extra on what is already a very expensive flagship sedan for a full LS-F package with that kind of power, (not just a F-Sport), I just don't see an engine like that having much appeal to most LS customers....a N/A V8, with tons of refinement, would make a lot more sense. Besides, the Mercedes S-Class AMG already has that small share of the marketplace pretty much covered.

comotiger

I was thinking just NA V8, just shoehorn the current engine with minor mods. Well, would Rhambler buy a NA V8 in the 5LS even if it were slower than the V6 TT? Looks like people want V8, even if it can't match the V6 TT. With the 10 year wait for the 5LS, it could sell 2000 units a month, if V8 and other options were available.

SW17LS

Correct. Hyundai and Kia did the right thing for them, they hired German designers so they could cash in on their established design aesthetic. Lexus is mature enough now that they can and should chart their own course.

Because thats all that makes sense when you have a base TTV6 that puts out these sort of numbers. Also understand that it is not just the AMG S Class that has a TTV8, the S550 is a TTV8 as is the 750.

Anyways, we haven't tested the TTV6 yet, so all of our talk about it not being refined is really just speculation.

People on CL want a V8. Look in the 4LS forum...how many members there bought their LS' new? Its perhaps 5 of us...how will the actual buying public react to the TTV6? My guess is most won't care. What sense does it make to put in an optional engine that is slower, and less efficient just for a niche few people that want a certain thing despite it not being as good?

What you have to understand is even if they could sell 2,000 units a month with different options (which I doubt, like I said nobody does that volume in this segment anymore. MB did the first year, but no longer and remember MB has a good amount of fleet sales with the S Class. They might make less profit selling the car with more options 2000 units a month than they could with a more streamlined approach at 1000 units per month.

RNM GS3

Noone would choose a V6TT over a NA V8 for same $$$.
There is no chance any V6 is as smooth as a V8. Inline 6 maybe.

If Lexus felt that people dont care, or that the V6 is better than why is the LC500 come with a V8??

Also i never saw any brand use 500 or whatever # and have it refer to 2 different powertrains especially since both are brand new models.
Lexus did this knowingly that people would assume that LS500 has V8 as well.

In this class of car V8 has more significance than HP imo.
Cadillac made same mistake with CT6.

Its just after 10-11 years, the best Lexus has was a V6 TT with 415hp. Thats just so underwhelming.
Now if they said we are downsizing and go hybrid only maybe i can get that.
Bring a V6 TT plus electric motors for over 500hp and over 35mpg.
That would a statement.....but a TT V6 is nothing special, AlfaRomeo, Maserati, Panamera all have had one pushing it similar #s.

Toys4RJill

More people would choose the V6TT over the V8. Smooth and quiet is pretty much irrelevant at this point as cars in the segment are now going for the incredible driving experience. The old Lexus concept of smooth and super quiet is outdated. Lets not forget that Lexus pumps sound into their LS F-sport model and most of the other models with artificially or with true sounds pumped in.

mmarshall

Incorrect. While, yes, some Lexus buyers do want more sportiness (and they tend to populate forums like this one), there are still a lot of them who want a Lexus that actually drives like a traditional one.

davyjordi

in this segment, smooth and quiet are definitely not outdated facets. they hold a heavy presence. while cars across the spectrum are aimed at a more sporty driving experience, cars of this caliber definitely value ride quality, smoothness and noise levels.

edit: mm beat me to it by a minute!

mmarshall

+1

Toys4RJill

Well, I disagree. The evidence suggests that driving experience of "sport" is more valued. Adding sound to the cabin is now something Lexus is doing across the line. LC, LS, RX, and NX. Also, the price points of new Lexus are higher for this with the F-sport. The tomb like atmosphere is still valued, but the sport and sport experience is where the segment is going.

RNM GS3

100% false - ye some ppl want their large cars to be sporty or have crazy hp therefore M760i, S63 amg, S8, XJ R exist.

But mainstream models are about Luxury and refinement.
My father just got S550 after having several LSs, 750li etc. He could care less about sport, he cant sit in my M3 for more than a minute. Also in NYC, a lot of ppl have these cars with personal drivers. So comfort and prestige are significant.

SW17LS

I think part of the issue with the V8 (the one they have) vs the V6 is the power experience. The 5.0 V8 is meant to be a high revving engine application that is used in their sporty F cars. That engine is more in line with the experience they're going for in the LC500, high rev, high engine note.

In the LS however I can see the argument that this engine would be a poor fit. When you come down to it, the buyer in this segment is really better served by this TTV6 with its lower power band which will give a more relaxed power experience than they would be by that 5.0 V8. On top of that, the car would be slower and less efficient. So less relaxed experience, slower and more inefficient...you can see why they elected to use the TTV6.

The only way to get the sort of performance out of a V8 that they need in order to compete is to make it a TTV8 like Mercedes and BMW use.

As for "no one would choose a TTV6 when they could have a NA V8 for the same money", I don't know that I agree with that anymore. If the TTV6 is just as smooth, and more powerful, and has more efficiency I can totally see why somebody would. Have you driven a CT6 with the TTV6? Or a Genesis G90 with the 6? I have...the CT6 is a little rougher but the G90 with that 6 felt pretty damn similar to the NA V8 in my LS460...

I have confidence they can make the TTV6 feel right.

Lexus focused grouped this I'm sure before they made the decision to do away with the V8...

davyjordi

so is the lack of a traditional NA V8 still a deal breaker for you, or have you warmed to the idea of a sole TTV6?

RNM GS3

I agree that this TT V6 will be a fine engine but i expected more from LS flagship that took 10+ years to come out.
Especially when Germans are offering 6cyl, 8cyl, hybrids and V12 options.

To your point about the 5.0 V8 - thats really a matter of tuning engine differently and with 10speed auto its easy to do to make it butter smooth. The 4.6 V8 in the current LS is ancient engine so if your comparing the new to that?
Compare it to a new V8tt from MB or BMW or Audi.

GTR had a V6 tt making 500hp 10 years ago.
From an engineering standpoint nothing really is special about this LS and it should be a game changer since it took so long to develop in the interim lost quite a bit of owners to other brands.