mmarshall

Did any of you watch this year's NASCAR Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis this past Sunday? This was more of a demolition derby than a race....probably the wildest, most destructive 160 laps (400 miles) I've ever seen. So many cautions, race-stoppages, clean-ups, and restarts were required (one due to rain), that the race did not end until nearly 9 PM (a time record)...and the track was rapidly getting dark.

A number of factors led to the also-record number of accidents and mishaps (including over-aggressive driving by some drivers, even more so than usual), but another one seems to be that these cars are generally designed for the wide, high-banked oval courses in the South, and Indy is narrower and much flatter in the corners, cutting down on cornering grip. Several accidents ended in flash-fires, which also shows how much fire-safety and driver-protection in these cars has come over the years.

Towards the end of the race, the accident rate increased as the driving got even more aggressive. The last couple of laps drove the race into legal overtime (twice), because on the restarts after each accident, the whole field itself couldn't even get across the start/finish line without having ANOTHER multi-car accident. It was the craziest thing I ever saw on a race track. Kasey Kahne managed, finally, to pull off a razor-thin victory over Brad Keselowski...a shame, IMO, not because I have anything against Kahne (I don't), but because a win for Brad would have given the Penske racing team something they have tried for, at the Brickyard 400, many times, and never gotten...a victory there.

Anyhow, at the end of the race, out of several dozen starters, I could only count only about 8 or 9 cars left that seemed to still be in one piece...a few others were significantly damaged, but still on the track limping around.

Here's a video showing most of the mishaps. (Unlike some people, BTW, I don't watch races just to see wrecks...each wreck and restart (and there were literally dozens of them) made me cringe.

Coleroad

Cautions tend to bread cautions. This is especially true on tracks that are hard to pass on. The nascar cars have become so aerodynamic sensitive that flat tracks seem very hard to pass on. Track position becomes king. The best ways to gain track position on these tracks are, in the pits, strategy, and get everything you can on a restart. This makes for over aggressive driving, including aggressive blocking. Stage racing for points has added to this aggressiveness throughout the race too.

i think the cup series should have more road racing tracks on the schedule. These and the short tracks I think are the best races anymore. I agree with you mm, that wrecks doesn't make great racing.

mmarshall

I'll bet that a LOT of money was lost in this race, by a number of different racing teams, on wrecked cars. This was more of a demolition derby than a race.

I agree with you on the aerodynamic factor, but an equal one is probably the flatter corners and loss of cornering grip. A number of cars seemed to spin out in the curves, even if they weren't bumped/tapped or run into.

Coleroad

It was better than the race at Indy some years back when the tires were blowing out every fifteen laps. That was right after the first time they did the diamond grinding to the track. That was the worst race I've ever seen.

mmarshall

I think the race you are refering to was the 2005 U.S. Grand Prix, which was a Formula-1 race run on Indy's infield road course, not the high-speed oval. Yes, that race was a tire disaster (I remember it well)......brought on, about at least in part, by a feud between Michelin, Bridgestone, and F1 management over which brand and type of tires were going to be allowed in the race. But that was a different type of race than what we saw Sunday....with a different type of race-car.

Coleroad

no, the 2008 cup race at Indianapolis. They kept throwing competition cautions throughout the race. Plus all the cautions because of tires blowing out. I think there was almost as many caution laps as race laps. I haven't watched a F1 race since the 70's.


i just read up on the F1 race you were referring to. Crazy , with tire changes not allowed, so that those wit Michelin tires retired to the pits at the beginning of the race. The fans who paid to watch got ripped on that deal.

mmarshall

Well, THIS should put an end to that problem LOL

Coleroad

nascar is definitely no longer "stock cars" in any sense of the word. I do love nascar though still. I like watching the IMSA sports car challenge, also known as the continental tire series. These are as close to stock cars as your going to get. A lot of what they are allowed to change , are things anyone could do. Read their rule book, it's a pretty awsome series. I'm a turner motorsports fan myself. They are a great company to deal with, and know what they are doing.

mmarshall

If they WERE still relatively stock cars like in the past, drivers wouldn't have anywhere near the same level of protection they have today.

situman

Road courses are boring. Even less passing and most people just run parade laps until the end. For people on the stands, you see cars passing you for like 2 seconds and you dont see the cars for another minute or so. Indycars failed and so did F1 in the U.S. On ovals you are always in on the racing and action.

mmarshall

TOTALLY agree. I never was a fan of F-1. Daytona, Charlotte, Talladega.....now that's racing.

Coleroad

MM, I totally agree, and I understand why they aren't anymore. Basically I was just replying that it's no longer a win on Sunday sell on Monday stock car. So I get why he's no longer interested when a Taurus, lumina, aren't anything like they were racing. I myself still love nascar racing irregardless.

Coleroad

I agree from the live at the race perspective it's not as engaging. There has been a lot more passing and racing with the low downforce package at the road courses. I agree up until this the nascar road racing was much more follow the leader, and boring. Also, stage racing has changed it too. I think for the better.

Lil4X

I watch NASCAR, IndyCar, and F1 races every weekend - but I do most of it in fast-forward mode. Other than major incidents, pit stops and restarts, where the cars are coming out on the track on cold tires, most races devolve into a parade except for the passing opportunities allowed by bunching up the field and releasing them to head for turn one in a dense pack. I can watch each weekend's Xfinity and Monster Cup races, IndyCar, and F1 in the space of about 3-4 hours by recording them and reviewing the races on Sunday afternoon, condensing a 2 hour race down to about 20 minutes or so.

Here's how it's done: Fast forward through all the pre-race ceremonies and happy talk, watch the start and first few laps, then fast forward at 3X so you can get a glimpse of the action until you see a yellow come out, then back up a few seconds to see what caused it. Watch for changes on the leaderboard, and stop to see how it was accomplished. Watch the pits for activity in prep for a scheduled round of stops, fast forward through all the talk and speculation. Watch the restarts in real time, then after the field has settled in after two or three laps, go back to 3X and watch the leaderboard for changes. Play the last ten minutes of the race at normal speed, because if there is going to be any dramatic passing, this is where it will be.

While open-wheel racing is so tightly controlled by the individual formula specs, it's unusual to see lead changes - and even positions in the pack are often becoming increasingly rare. Get through the first couple of turns and you're looking at the likely podium. NASCAR, with the extreme safety innovations made in the past twenty or thirty years, that has given rise to generic cars that are Ford, Chevy, or Toyota distinguishable only by their livery, allows a lot more bumping and banging that doesn't get a driver anywhere, except to destroy tires, put them into the wall, and "modify" the aerodynamics of his car rather severely. Too often they get airborne after a major collision at speed, resulting in "the big one". Thankfully, the safety technology now mandated in the cars and the track itself, makes this considerably less life-threatening than it once was.

The newest "stage racing" in NASCAR has spread the opportunities for desperate moves over two shorter "stages" consisting of 40-50 laps each (each offering championship points), plus the long final stage, it's proving to foster a "destruction derby" in the final six or seven laps of the race to determine a survivor. While I'm sure it's spectacular, for me, it's not what racing is all about.

mmarshall

That's one of a number of reasons why I'm not an F1 fan, especially on road-courses....it's too boring, repetitious, cut-and-dried, and, IMO, not true racing. The only open-wheel race that departs from this scenario, to any significant degree, is the annual Indy 500 on Memorial Day......and that's because, like the big NASCAR events down South, it's done on a high-speed super-speedway, not a road-course.