Mulally wanted to kill Lincoln as late as last year, Fields vows to turn it around
07-01-14, 08:38 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
RWD alone won't cut it in that class, though. That's why the 300 has an AWD option (so does the new and even smaller 200, for that matter). Though I hated to see the Town Car and DTS both go, that was one thing that both of them needed but lacked....and what both of their MKS and XTS successors do provide.
07-01-14, 08:44 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Lex2InfiN
They do not have their own platform for any of their vehicles, correct? That right there tells you that they are not anywhere close to being competitive with the Germans or even Cadillac.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-01-14 at 08:48 PM.
07-01-14, 09:05 PM
#18
But they aren't Lincoln reps is my point. They are PR people who specialize in working car shows...they have no more insight into the plans of Lincoln than you or I do.
Anecdotal stories about what people say at car shows don't tell us anything. Lincoln doesn't need gross sales, they need compelling products that will drive a new generation of people to buy their products. The Town Car being gone is not whats stopping them from doing that...they just aren't making products that people want to buy, they have no dealer presence, etc. Look at Cadillac and look at Lincoln. Once peers, no longer peers. Cadillac did away with the Fleetwood, and the DTS, and look at them now.
Theres just no place in the market for a big, body on frame, RWD V8 sedan anymore. Nobody wants that except livery companies and limo companies...and a few retirees who quite frankly are the past, not the future.
Now thats not to say Lincoln doesn't need a nice RWD Flagship...I think they do...but not the TC
Anecdotal stories about what people say at car shows don't tell us anything. Lincoln doesn't need gross sales, they need compelling products that will drive a new generation of people to buy their products. The Town Car being gone is not whats stopping them from doing that...they just aren't making products that people want to buy, they have no dealer presence, etc. Look at Cadillac and look at Lincoln. Once peers, no longer peers. Cadillac did away with the Fleetwood, and the DTS, and look at them now.
Theres just no place in the market for a big, body on frame, RWD V8 sedan anymore. Nobody wants that except livery companies and limo companies...and a few retirees who quite frankly are the past, not the future.
Now thats not to say Lincoln doesn't need a nice RWD Flagship...I think they do...but not the TC
As for Lincoln:
Step 1: Build luxury crossover (MKC is a good start)
Step 2: Build entry level sedan/sport sedan people can get excited about (MKZ is not a good start)
Step 3: Build rwd flagship and/or new Navigator
Step 4: Profit
They can fill out the ranks later on, no need to jump into too many models if they're all mediocre. If they cant nail those 3-4 cars then they're gonna have a bad time.
07-02-14, 07:54 AM
#19
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I think they should have kept Mercury and axed Lincoln. Mercury could have been their Acura/Buick brand (upscale versions of their standard lineup of vehicles). If I'm not mistaken, aren't all Lincolns are based off of existing Ford models? They do not have their own platform for any of their vehicles, correct? That right there tells you that they are not anywhere close to being competitive with the Germans or even Cadillac. Bottom line is they simply haven't invested enough resources into the brand to really compete against the Tier 1 players.
07-02-14, 10:14 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
The big question though, is can Ford afford to have three divisions? One of the ways they avoided a GM/Chrysler-style buyout several years ago was to pare down to two divisions. They sold off all the rest....Mazda, Land-Rover, Jaguar, and Volvo.
07-02-14, 11:43 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think they need three divisions. Mercury is a needless step brand since modern Fords are pretty ritzy at the top end. They just need to focus on Ford and Lincoln.
I think Lincoln's chances of ever being a legitimate player ended when Ford decided to move Lincoln dealers in with Ford dealers. With that arrangement Lincoln will always be lower tier.
I think Lincoln's chances of ever being a legitimate player ended when Ford decided to move Lincoln dealers in with Ford dealers. With that arrangement Lincoln will always be lower tier.
07-02-14, 03:37 PM
#22
Lincoln has brought back the Town Car for the airport limo trade! It is not the old body on frame car, but a special version of the MKT. The 3rd row seat is removed for more luggage space and the 2nd row is moved aft for more legroom. The eccobost V6 is not available.
Steve
Steve
07-02-14, 05:31 PM
#23
Lincoln has brought back the Town Car for the airport limo trade! It is not the old body on frame car, but a special version of the MKT. The 3rd row seat is removed for more luggage space and the 2nd row is moved aft for more legroom. The eccobost V6 is not available.
Steve
Steve
07-02-14, 05:43 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
Lincoln has brought back the Town Car for the airport limo trade! It is not the old body on frame car, but a special version of the MKT. The 3rd row seat is removed for more luggage space and the 2nd row is moved aft for more legroom. The eccobost V6 is not available.
Steve
Steve
07-02-14, 06:18 PM
#25
There is so much wrong w/ Lincoln that I don't even know where to start. They've spent so many years building crap that it will take a huge turn around to change people's perceptions.
When I started car shopping for my current car a few months ago, I made a conscious decision to include US automakers in my search and test drive their products. When I told my wife I was going to look at Lincoln, she literally laughed in my face because she thought I was joking. Assuming that she envisioned me driving a TC, I showed her a pic of the MKZ. After seeing it she said something like she'd rather walk than drive w/ me if I bought a Lincoln.
She doesn't care what it looks like or how it drives, in her mind, a Lincoln is a car for taxi drivers and pensioners. (Yes, I went to test drive it anyway.) 
When I started car shopping for my current car a few months ago, I made a conscious decision to include US automakers in my search and test drive their products. When I told my wife I was going to look at Lincoln, she literally laughed in my face because she thought I was joking. Assuming that she envisioned me driving a TC, I showed her a pic of the MKZ. After seeing it she said something like she'd rather walk than drive w/ me if I bought a Lincoln.
She doesn't care what it looks like or how it drives, in her mind, a Lincoln is a car for taxi drivers and pensioners. (Yes, I went to test drive it anyway.)
07-02-14, 06:40 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
There is so much wrong w/ Lincoln that I don't even know where to start. They've spent so many years building crap that it will take a huge turn around to change people's perceptions.
When I started car shopping for my current car a few months ago, I made a conscious decision to include US automakers in my search and test drive their products. When I told my wife I was going to look at Lincoln, she literally laughed in my face because she thought I was joking. Assuming that she envisioned me driving a TC, I showed her a pic of the MKZ. After seeing it she said something like she'd rather walk than drive w/ me if I bought a Lincoln. She doesn't care what it looks like or how it drives, in her mind, a Lincoln is a car for taxi drivers and pensioners. (Yes, I went to test drive it anyway.)
When I started car shopping for my current car a few months ago, I made a conscious decision to include US automakers in my search and test drive their products. When I told my wife I was going to look at Lincoln, she literally laughed in my face because she thought I was joking. Assuming that she envisioned me driving a TC, I showed her a pic of the MKZ. After seeing it she said something like she'd rather walk than drive w/ me if I bought a Lincoln.
She doesn't care what it looks like or how it drives, in her mind, a Lincoln is a car for taxi drivers and pensioners. (Yes, I went to test drive it anyway.)
07-02-14, 07:02 PM
#27
My opinion is based on driving crappy Lincolns rented at airports over the years while I travel for work. #roadwarrior
I have no idea where my wife gets her ideas from.
07-02-14, 07:18 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
And I agree that many Lincoln products are rather unimpressive....I was not thrilled with either the MKT, MKS, MKX, or MKZ when I did full-reviews on all four of them. All four, IMO, were mediocre-driving vehicles. What I meant by the stereotypes was that, IMO, too many people and too many organizations, even in the auto press itself, come up with pre-conceived notions that certain brands and classes of vehicles are pre-conditioned for certain types of buyer age, gender, or income groups. Examples are small convertibles (especially VWs) for women and gay men, Buicks/Lincolns/Cadillacs for old people, small hybrids for environmentalists, Saabs/Volvos for the academics/professors and lesbians, Porsches and Bentleys for doctors/lawyers, Mercedes S-class for rich guys who play golf, minivans and some larger SUVs or soccer-moms, Corvettes/Vipers/Shelby-Mustangs for Macho WWF guys, BMWs for over-stuffed ego-heads........well, you get the picture.
BTW, the upcoming MKC, a small luxury SUV done off of the Ford Escape platform, shows some REAL promise for Lincoln. I've been very impressed with (admittedly) what little I've seen of it so far.....mostly at the D.C. auto show. I'm eagerly waiting for a chance to review one.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-02-14 at 07:32 PM.
07-02-14, 07:20 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
I hope the Lincoln Division does well. The competition is good for both consumers and other manufacturers.
Maybe the brand is gaining some traction. Thru May MKZ +42% and MKX +18%. The MKC is coming and should do very well for them in the Compact Luxury CUV segment.
Maybe the brand is gaining some traction. Thru May MKZ +42% and MKX +18%. The MKC is coming and should do very well for them in the Compact Luxury CUV segment.
07-02-14, 07:51 PM
#30
I wasn't trying to be rude.....don't take it the wrong way. And I agree that many Lincoln products are rather unimpressive....I was not thrilled with either the MKT, MKS, MKX, or MKZ when I did full-reviews on all four of them. All four, IMO, were mediocre-driving vehicles.
What I meant by the stereotypes was that, IMO, too many people and too many organizations, even in the auto press itself, come up with pre-conceived notions that certain brands and classes of vehicles are pre-conditioned for certain types of buyer age, gender, or income groups. Examples are small convertibles (especially VWs) for women and gay men, Buicks/Lincolns/Cadillacs for old people, small hybrids for environmentalists, Saabs/Volvos for the academics/professors and lesbians, Porsches and Bentleys for doctors/lawyers, Mercedes S-class for rich guys who play golf, minivans and some larger SUVs or soccer-moms, Corvettes/Vipers/Shelby-Mustangs for Macho WWF guys, BMWs for over-stuffed ego-heads........well, you get the picture.
BTW, the upcoming MKC, a small luxury SUV done off of the Ford Escape platform, shows some REAL promise for Lincoln. I've been very impressed with (admittedly) what little I've seen of it so far.....mostly at the D.C. auto show. I'm eagerly waiting for a chance to review one.
And I agree that many Lincoln products are rather unimpressive....I was not thrilled with either the MKT, MKS, MKX, or MKZ when I did full-reviews on all four of them. All four, IMO, were mediocre-driving vehicles. What I meant by the stereotypes was that, IMO, too many people and too many organizations, even in the auto press itself, come up with pre-conceived notions that certain brands and classes of vehicles are pre-conditioned for certain types of buyer age, gender, or income groups. Examples are small convertibles (especially VWs) for women and gay men, Buicks/Lincolns/Cadillacs for old people, small hybrids for environmentalists, Saabs/Volvos for the academics/professors and lesbians, Porsches and Bentleys for doctors/lawyers, Mercedes S-class for rich guys who play golf, minivans and some larger SUVs or soccer-moms, Corvettes/Vipers/Shelby-Mustangs for Macho WWF guys, BMWs for over-stuffed ego-heads........well, you get the picture.
BTW, the upcoming MKC, a small luxury SUV done off of the Ford Escape platform, shows some REAL promise for Lincoln. I've been very impressed with (admittedly) what little I've seen of it so far.....mostly at the D.C. auto show. I'm eagerly waiting for a chance to review one.